Lutron Mastreo Custom 4-way

[jmoschetti45]

Currently upgrading some lutron 3-way dimmer setups, and thought of something. Per lutron, you can have basically a 4 to 9 way setup, as long as you use 1 master and X companion dimmers. Great, but not what I want/need.

If you've ever worked with these, you know they have black, brass, and blue terminals. From a quick call to lutron and some thinking, the blue which is daisy chained from each switch is a constant hot. Makes sense since they all need power to work.

Now, you can use a master dimmer and regular 3-way (or technically 1-way) switch to make a 3-way. Great.

I'm in need of a master dimmer, companion dimmer, and a regular switch (this other switch is actually relays for automation). Per the lutron book, you put the master and companion at the 3-way ends like in a regular 3-way lutron setup, and in the 4-way spot you tie the 2 (lets call them "out" side) of the travelers together (which become the blue connection - always hot), and the remaining 2 connections from the travelers go to the other 2 screws.

Part of me wants to assume this is now basically a 3 way....since its switching either the black or brass from the master and companion dimmer into the blue leg.

Anybody ever tried this? I'm going to rig up a bench setup worst case and try it out, just wondering if it's been done.

Absolute last resort is to pop apart a companion dimmer and replace the internal switch with some automation, but I'm trying to avoid buying a dozen or more of these just for that.

 

[hbiss]

From what I see you can only use a 3-way switch with one dimmer. Two dimmers require all to be master/slave, unless you have some inside information that users aren't privy to.

But you speak of automation with a relay instead if a switch. What are you trying to accomplish?

-Hal

 

[jmoschetti45]

Retain the 2 lutron switch setup, but add a "3rd" for remote control.

I have a feeling a bench setup and some testing is going to be in order.

Odds are it's not going to be simple, but sometimes you get lucky. 3rd option would be to hook up the o-scope and see, since I know they exchange data between the two switches for dimming and function control.

 

[hbiss]

Retain the 2 lutron switch setup, but add a "3rd" for remote control.

I understood that.

I have a feeling a bench setup and some testing is going to be in order... Odds are it's not going to be simple, but sometimes you get lucky. 3rd option would be to hook up the o-scope and see, since I know they exchange data between the two switches for dimming and function control.

What we sell and install needs to be listed for the application by the manufacturer and installed according to the instructions. If a product is modified it generally voids the listing making it illegal for us to use or install.

If you want to incorporate relay switching with this product, I see no problem with that. But if you want to modify the product itself, there are probably other forums for EEs where you can discuss stuff like that.

We are not hackers here.

-Hal

 

[jmoschetti45]

What we sell and install needs to be listed for the application by the manufacturer and installed according to the instructions. If a product is modified it generally voids the listing making it illegal for us to use or install.

Valid point, a modified device would lose its rating. Forgot about that.

But if you want to modify the product itself, there are probably other forums for EEs where you can discuss stuff like that.

That's my line of work. Just figured someone here might have been in this situation since you install these sorts of things, I just design them.

Thanks!

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I believe there are different scenarios that you have to look at. If you want dimming capability at all switch locations then you need the Maestro slaves in 2 of the three locations with the master in one.

If not then I don't believe you can use one standard 4 way with a master and slave unless they have redesigned them since I used hem

 

[Fulthrotl]

Currently upgrading some lutron 3-way dimmer setups, and thought of something. Per lutron, you can have basically a 4 to 9 way setup, as long as you use 1 master and X companion dimmers. Great, but not what I want/need.

If you've ever worked with these, you know they have black, brass, and blue terminals. From a quick call to lutron and some thinking, the blue which is daisy chained from each switch is a constant hot. Makes sense since they all need power to work.

Now, you can use a master dimmer and regular 3-way (or technically 1-way) switch to make a 3-way. Great.

I'm in need of a master dimmer, companion dimmer, and a regular switch (this other switch is actually relays for automation). Per the lutron book, you put the master and companion at the 3-way ends like in a regular 3-way lutron setup, and in the 4-way spot you tie the 2 (lets call them "out" side) of the travelers together (which become the blue connection - always hot), and the remaining 2 connections from the travelers go to the other 2 screws.

Part of me wants to assume this is now basically a 3 way....since its switching either the black or brass from the master and companion dimmer into the blue leg.

Anybody ever tried this? I'm going to rig up a bench setup worst case and try it out, just wondering if it's been done.

Absolute last resort is to pop apart a companion dimmer and replace the internal switch with some automation, but I'm trying to avoid buying a dozen or more of these just for that.

well, what if you feed the lutron with the switchleg from the automation..... and then use pico's paired to the maestro? there is a gray maestro that is plenum rated for use above the ceiling for something like that. put the maestro out of the way, and use the picos for local control?

 

[hbiss]

I was going to say, there has to be other products out there that could do what you need to do.

-Hal

 

[synchro]

Below are some Lutron patents on Maestro devices.


https://patentimages.storage.googlea.../US5248919.pdf

https://patentimages.storage.googlea.../US5798581.pdf

A tap to turn on or off the dimmer (using the button of either the dimmer or companion device) will momentarily connect the common blue wire to the load side of the dimmer.

Pushing up on the rocker will momentarily connect the blue wire through a diode to the load side (but with the cathode terminal connected to blue wire to conduct positive half-cycles of the dimmer output). This raises the light level.

Pushing down on the rocker will also momentarily connect the blue wire through a diode to the load side but with the opposite polarity (the anode side is connected to blue wire to conduct negative half-cycles). This lowers the light level.

 

[hbiss]

That's simple enough. So much for the blue being a constant hot, just goes to show you how much the engineers know. The black is the hot.
I always knew the blue was the control lead, but how it worked I never thought about.

So now with a couple of relays and a couple of diodes you can build your interface.

-Hal

 

[LarryFine]

Sounds like they work like the old X-10 devices, which I still have and use. The master does all of the switching/dimming, and the slave(s) are merely wired remotes for the master.. The travelers get re-purposed: one becomes either the hot feed-through or the load feed-through, depending on which end of the string it's located, and the other traveler becomes the wired-remote wire.

The point is that your relay-control at the third switch location merely needs to mimic what the slave switches do when activated.

 

[Fulthrotl]

We are not hackers here.

-Hal

:happyno::happyno::happyno:

 

[jmoschetti45]

The patents were the perfect answer. They are correct, I put together a bench setup. 2 diodes allow remote dimming, and you can turn off/on the lights, jump to maximum brightness, and delay turn off. I was expecting this to be much more complicated. Thanks!