LV lights flickering

[iwire]

Absolutely, 2 years ago I wired a 4 million dollar renovation and spent over 20,000 dollars on outdoor lighting, manufacturers were Vista and Kim Lighting, all UL approved and the main had Lutron Homeworks switches almost everywhere. He wanted every light in and outside the house dimmed- closet and all. Rope lighting also comes cord and plug and people always want to dim them.

I don't care what they want, if I can not provide what they want within the NEC they do not get it from me.

I understand it is NEC violation to dim the recep. but sometimes you have to use common sense and look at the intent.

No, it is not up to us to guess the intent and break the rules when the rules make our job harder.

Indoor low voltage transformers made by LBL do not come with cord and plug but the WP Transformers do and they are dimmable.

You mentioned plug in transformers.....send them back and get hardwired ones. If they spent $20,000 they can spend $20,500.

JMO, Bob

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't care what they want, if I can not provide what they want within the NEC they do not get it from me.

You know this is a false statement Bob. You have admitted so in a previous post--- there is no way anyone follows the NEC to the letter. It is like anything else there are degrees-- if a romex staple is 13 inches away from a box instead of 12 the world wont end nor is their imminent danger in it.

No, it is not up to us to guess the intent and break the rules when the rules make our job harder.

No It is not up to me that's why if you read my posts after the one you quoted you can see that I said I have to "change my evil ways, baby"


You mentioned plug in transformers.....send them back and get hardwired ones. If they spent $20,000 they can spend $20,500.
JMO, Bob[/QUOTE]
Again read one of my other post--- and I am sorry you had a bad day today--relax

 

[tonyou812]

I gotta go with iwire on this one. there are alot of stu... aem.. not so smart people out there and why invite risk when its totaly unessesary? And any chance to tell a homeowner/designer to try again is my kind of option. especially the real annoying ones. Do I get an amen or what.....?

 

[360Youth]

I gotta go with iwire on this one. there are alot of stu... aem.. not so smart people out there and why invite risk when its totaly unessesary? And any chance to tell a homeowner/designer to try again is my kind of option. especially the real annoying ones. Do I get an amen or what.....?

I have told more than one they could not have something the code would not allow and some they would have to have certain things the code required. I have bent the rules more than once, as long as safety was not a factor, but my goal is to be within code. My main requirement, whether I like it or not, as I have told helpers, contractors, and homeowners, is the NEC. After reading the code on this recept. issue someone could interpret that a recptacle feeds a permanently mounted incandescent. It is a stretch, but I think the wording could be better. Hardwiring the transformer is an easy solution, and there should be no debate then. The code also leaves install open by saying the dimmer could be listed for other use.

 

[allenwayne]

If I remember correctly ,isn`t there a specific receptacle and cord cap to be used on dimming receptacles.I seem to remember that this came up awhile back and the determination was that if the applicable cord cap and receptacle were used the receptacle could be dimmed.But then again I think the Bears will do tony Dungy in tonight.Film at 11.

I had an issue in which the inspector on hard wired xformers for puck lights gave a pain about the transformers being inside a box with the line side voltage, and the switch legs.So I asked how do you want me to do it.Set a J box with all switch legs in one box then a second box with one switch leg and the line voltage switch leg and attach them in there.Inspection time another tag.Line voltage and LV not separated.GRRRRRRRRRRR .So next time I set 2 boxes side by side.Then used a 4 gang blank drilled 2 holes and mounted the plate over the top of them now lv and line voltage was separated.Next inspection the job was tagged again xformer subject to physical damage.Double GRRRRRRRRRRRR.So now what to do ?????? I called the guy and asked hey I have done all you have asked and you still tag the job.Now he says.The xformer has to be protected and ventilated.In the meantime he did issue a temp electrical final.Since the county got a release they released the co the house closed and was moved into.Next week he asks why hasn`t he got a card to reinspect the house.I said that the builder has gotten a CO and the county has released the house.He was irrate.Well lets see about that he says.He goes up and knocks on the front door the owner a sherrifs deputy answers and looks down.This guy was huge.
Can I help you he asks????? UHHHHHHHHH no wrong address was all I heard.Is there a compliant way to install these hardwired xformers ????

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If I remember correctly ,isn`t there a specific receptacle and cord cap to be used on dimming receptacles.

Yes there is . Lutron makes it see post #18. Of course you have to get the plug to match it.

Is there a compliant way to install these hardwired xformers ????

It all depends on which transformer you are talking about. The indoor one made for the puck style lights Wac makes a transformer that has exposed line and low voltage leads that need to be installed in a box. There is a box that is specificaly made for these transformers and, in fact, separates (if I remember correctly) the low volt and high voltage wires. The low voltage wires can occupy the same box as the high voltage if the low voltage wire has high voltage insulation. These of course are direct wire so the dimmable receptacle is not an issue.
Some outdoor transformers, like the one I was referring to, already comes with cord and plug. I guess you can install the Lutron dimming Receptacle and put a new end on the cord or buy the transformers that are made for direct wire. Either of these style are of the 300 and 600 watt outdoor style that cost $250 - $350 dollars and are dimmable.
But, here is another catch in the whole idea.......... If you install the dimmable receptacle in a crawl space or outside, the code would still require it to be GFCI protected ---It doesn't give exception for the dimmable receptacle-- this is where I feel one has to use common sense but I got lambasted for it. I believe most inspectors would see that no one could plug into that receptacle and would probably let it slide but you never know. If you go by the letter of the code you need GFI protection. I guess one could put it on a GFI and deal with the nuisance tripping, therefore I believe it is best to use a transformer that is the direct wire type. It will be more cost effective and less hassles in the long run.
Hope this helped and sorry for being so wordy

 

[Dennis Alwon]

This isn't a great picture but it the one they had at the Wac website

 

[360Youth]

But, here is another catch in the whole idea.......... If you install the dimmable receptacle in a crawl space or outside, the code would still require it to be GFCI protected ---It doesn't give exception for the dimmable receptacle-- this is where I feel one has to use common sense but I got lambasted for it. I believe most inspectors would see that no one could plug into that receptacle and would probably let it slide but you never know. If you go by the letter of the code you need GFI protection. I guess one could put it on a GFI and deal with the nuisance tripping, therefore I believe it is best to use a transformer that is the direct wire type. It will be more cost effective and less hassles in the long run.
Hope this helped and sorry for being so wordy

I know 210.8 (A)(2) Exc. 2 allows a non GFI for outlets dedicated to appliances, but is there any wording that would allow for the same usage to apply to single outlets to be non-GFIed in these circumstances. I have hooked up single-outlet receptacles for dedicated equipment under a house or outdoors (pumps, lighting transformers, etc.) that I could never in good conscience force a homeowner to go that out of the way to reset should the recepteacle trip. If possible, I avoid the situation completely by better design, but...

 

[electricmanscott]

At the end of the day the rule is clear. You are not allowed to dim receptacles.
And also back to the original question you should always make sre you are using the correct dimmer for the application.

 

[epinc]

Why does a 120v dimmer make LV lights flicker? What is difference between the LV dimmers and the 120v dimmers?