MA. General Laws

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romeo

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MGL Chapter 143:Section 3L. Allows persons w/out a license to do electrical work.(not doing work for hire)

My Question? If a person does electrical work in a building that they are receiving financial benefit from is that like doing work for hire?

I am thinking of residential rental property or commercial buildings, where the owner may even raise rents after the improvements are made.

Thanks for any opinions.

romeo
 
You will have to dig through for some definitions before you get the answer. Though generally where I'm from "work for hire" includes both 1) if you are paid directly for the work or 2) if you are retained as a paid employee in any capacity.

Incorporated property owners are expected to be compensated for doing work and can be taxed or fined if they work without fee.

"Work for hire" may also include non-incorporated owners who receive compensation directly from retail sales or rent.

The intent of the exclusion is usually to allow a home owner to do work on their own home.
 
Many ways around getting paid to do electrical without a license. Mostly a risky thing to be doing as owner is just as guilty as the worker. Get hurt and see how that turns out.
To me if you gain anything from free rent , food,etc then you have been PAID. We see it here often and its cash under the table. Be carefull.
 
MGL Chapter 143:Section 3L. Allows persons w/out a license to do electrical work.(not doing work for hire)

My Question? If a person does electrical work in a building that they are receiving financial benefit from is that like doing work for hire?

Are you receiving financial rewards specifically for doing electrical work? Or are you financially benefiting because of something unrelated that isn't associated with that?
 
MA. General Laws

Are you receiving financial rewards specifically for doing electrical work? Or are you financially benefiting because of something unrelated that isn't associated with that?

Neither, I am trying to find a way to stop slum-lords from doing electrical work.

Thanks for the reply.

romeo
 
Neither, I am trying to find a way to stop slum-lords from doing electrical work.

Thanks for the reply.

romeo

Even if there's a violation of law, or, even without the MGL you quoted, landlords will still violate that law for profit.

IMHO if you own the property, you are the law. Anyone that has a problem with that can choose not to live there.
 
motels hire handymen all the time and in most states thats legal cause they own building and put him on payroll. Answer for your area depends on local laws. You really want to work for a guy like this ? Slum lords will always find a way to get it done cheap.
 
MA. General Laws

Even if there's a violation of law, or, even without the MGL you quoted, landlords will still violate that law for profit.

IMHO if you own the property, you are the law. Anyone that has a problem with that can choose not to live there.

I doubt that you have seen some of the conditions I see welfare mothers with children living under.

Anytime someone charges rent they are responsible for providing a safe place to live.Landlords are always there to collect rents but slow to make repairs. I am thankful for the Boards of Health that do there job.

I have also seen the workmanship done by handy men hired by the slum lords, while work done at there personal homes are only done by qualified professionals.

Sorry I just had to vent.
 
You can provide a written notice of Violation/danger still right? Does your town have a system set up to fine owner/landlords as the days pass?

Tom
 
I doubt that you have seen some of the conditions I see welfare mothers with children living under.

It shouldn't suprise you to learn that there is poverty everywhere. Right now, a local landlord is on trial for murder, seems a house he owned was illegally subdivied into multiple apartments and subsequently condemned by the township. The utility pulled the meters, but reinstalled because they found out there were people living there. Then, someone bypassed a tenant meter and the utility disconnected the service at the pole, leaving the tenants w/o electricity or power for the boiler.

There is some question as to who did the purchasing and hooking up, but it ended up that a genset was purchased and kept running in the basement, causing the deaths of a some tenants.

Anytime someone charges rent they are responsible for providing a safe place to live. Landlords are always there to collect rents but slow to make repairs. I am thankful for the Boards of Health that do there job.

I have also seen the workmanship done by handy men hired by the slum lords, while work done at there personal homes are only done by qualified professionals.

Sorry I just had to vent.

Nothing wrong with venting, or to be sorry about. I don't know how things are done in Ma, but here before welfare or sect. 8 will pay a rent, they must approve the apartment as habitable. The walls might be lumpy, the devices might not match, the fixtures might be circa 1900, the toilet might be stained, but that doesn't mean the place isn't habitable.
 
I doubt that you have seen some of the conditions I see welfare mothers with children living under.
Yes I have. I am a landlord and visit many other properties as a part of doing business.

Anytime someone charges rent they are responsible for providing a safe place to live.Landlords are always there to collect rents but slow to make repairs. I am thankful for the Boards of Health that do their job.
Yes we are responsible as a JOINT effort by both the landlord and the tenant.
Only bad landlords are slow to make repairs. Good landlords are fast to repair and fast to collect.
Remember that the Board of Health typically does the job by declaring the place uninhabitable or by forcing the landlord to evict in order to make repairs. Often the tenant is a major contributor to the property problems.

I have also seen the workmanship done by handy men hired by the slum lords, while work done at there personal homes are only done by qualified professionals.
The profit margin on welfare and section 8 homes is not very great. Neither will pay to repair damages to the property until the tenant is dispossessed. Therefore the slumlords will not make repairs without evicting them. Welfare and Section 8 consider a great deal of tenant damage to be "simple wear and tear". As such, better landlords like myself are loathe to rent to welfare or section 8 tenants.

Sorry I just had to vent.
If you don't vent then you don't learn. Apologize to me only if you don't vent or learn :grin:
Sadly what you are seeing comes from a combination of tenants and government. The only people that want to deal with welfare and section 8 are large corporations and slumlords. Small time landlords such as myself cannot afford to rent to such tenants. Too much damage is caused by the tenants that the government will not pay for or will not pay for on a timely basis.

From time to time a social service agent insists that we rent to a subsidy tenant. We present the lease and they choke over it. We insist on payment for tenant caused damages at the time we make repairs - not three years later when the tenant leaves. We insist on rent at the beginning of the month - not fifteen days after the end of the month. We insist on background checks. We insist on the right to evict if the tenant becomes a danger to the rental unit or the neighborhood. In short, we insist on the same respect for our business and property that you expect for your business and property. Most of the social service agents refuse to accept the conditions and leave.
 
MGL Chapter 143:Section 3L. Allows persons w/out a license to do electrical work.(not doing work for hire)

My Question? If a person does electrical work in a building that they are receiving financial benefit from is that like doing work for hire?

I am thinking of residential rental property or commercial buildings, where the owner may even raise rents after the improvements are made.

Thanks for any opinions.

romeo


I disagree IMO
The law does not allow a person without a license to do electrical work.

You need to bring these people to housing court but the odds are your municaplaity won't spend the money. File a complaint with the board http://www.mass.gov/Eoca/docs/dpl/complaint.pdf..


I'm guessing you a municipal inspector ??
 
I disagree IMO
The law does not allow a person without a license to do electrical work.
Well,.. here is the section ... Why would they have used the phrase for hire in the crafting of this law???
Chapter 143: Section 3L. Regulations relative to electrical wiring and fixtures; notice of electrical installation

Section 3L. The board of fire prevention regulations shall make and promulgate, and from time to time may alter, amend and repeal, rules and regulations relative to the installation, repair and maintenance of electrical wiring and electrical fixtures used for light, heat and power purposes in buildings and structures subject to the provisions of sections three to sixty, inclusive, and the state building code. Such regulations shall be in accordance with generally accepted standards of engineering practice, and shall be designed to provide reasonable uniform requirements of safety in relation to life, fire and explosion.

Upon the making of such rules and regulations and prior to their promulgation, the board shall hold a public hearing thereon, notice of which shall be given by advertising in at least one newspaper in each of the cities of Boston, Worcester, Springfield, Fall River, Lowell and Lynn, at least ten days before said hearing. If, subsequent to their being deposited with the state secretary, as provided herein, the board on its own initiative contemplates changes in said rules and regulations, or if a petition is filed by any other person for changes therein, like notice and a hearing shall be given and held before the adoption thereof.

Such rules and regulations, and any alterations, amendments or repeals thereof shall be deposited with the state secretary, and the same shall become effective when so deposited.

No person shall install for hire any electrical wiring or fixtures subject to this section without first or within five days after commencing the work giving notice to the inspector of wires appointed pursuant to the provisions of section thirty-two of chapter one hundred and sixty-six. Said notice shall be given by mailing or delivering a permit application form prepared by the board, to said inspector. Any person failing to give such notice shall be punished by a fine not exceeding five hundred dollars. This section shall be enforced by the inspector of wires within his jurisdiction and the state examiners of electricians.

Any person installing for hire electrical wiring or fixtures subject to this section shall notify the inspector of wires in writing upon the completion of the work. The inspector of wires shall, within five days of such notification, give written notice of his approval or disapproval of said work. A notice of disapproval shall contain specifications of the part of the work disapproved, together with a reference to the rule or regulation of the board of fire prevention regulations which has been violated.
 
Neither, I am trying to find a way to stop slum-lords from doing electrical work.

Thanks for the reply.

romeo

Romeo ,.. I found this

http://www.mass.gov/Eoca/docs/dpl/boards/el/statuatory_requirements_carnivals.pdf

not quite the same ,.. but it seems to me ,.. that even if no permit or license was or is required there seems to be language that would allow for you to get involved. I hope it helps

It is also instructive to note that under all circumstances noted above, whether a permit or
license is required or not, an inspector of wires is authorized by the language of section
32 of chapter 166 of the general laws to take note of any attachment, insulation, support
or appliance attached to any wire over which he has jurisdiction is improper or unsafe,
and notify the person owning or operating any such wire.
Even in circumstances where no permit and no license is required, and where as a result a
local wire inspector may not have jurisdiction over the ?installation of wires? the above
language of section 32 may be interpreted to authorize a local inspector of wires who has
come into possession of information of improper or unsafe attachments, such as but not
limited to the insulation of, support of, or appliances attached to any electrical wires, and
including the failure to provided the continuity assurance of grounding conductors at
portable rides, as provided by the NEC, to notify the person owning or operating such
wire, as well as other officials whose jurisdiction may extend generally over such wire. A
building inspector, fire official, or a state inspector of amusement rides who is notified of
such a potentially dangerous situation could take action related to matters within his
jurisdiction, including his issuance of the permit to operate a carnival, circus, fair or other
similar event. That action could include suspending the permit until the dangerous
situation is corrected.
 
I am trying to find a way to stop slum-lords from doing electrical work.

Thanks for the reply.

romeo

I've endeavored to do the same thing but, unfortunately to no avail. I was met with either lack of concern or simply being ignored. I mean the code enforcement office didn't even answer their phone, forget about returning a call from a message. And I'm not talking about only electrical, I mean all kinds of unsafe and unhealthy practices while these people are abusive to the tenants they house. The health department had much more interest though, but still no action. It seems this sort of thing is at best ignored if not just plain encouraged. But then it's probably very different from one jurisdiction to the next.
 
And a $500 fine is to stop you from hiring a handyman ? If caught still a bargain over hiring an EC. When tenants complain they get evicted or rent raised. So they put up with what they get. No not saying its right,just how it is.
 
I disagree IMO
The law does not allow a person without a license to do electrical work.

I have to disagree with you here, the way the law is written any person can work on any electrical system in MA for free. No permit or inspection required.
 
Ma. General Laws

Ma. General Laws

Yes I have. I am a landlord and visit many other properties as a part of doing business.


Yes we are responsible as a JOINT effort by both the landlord and the tenant.
Only bad landlords are slow to make repairs. Good landlords are fast to repair and fast to collect.
Remember that the Board of Health typically does the job by declaring the place uninhabitable or by forcing the landlord to evict in order to make repairs. Often the tenant is a major contributor to the property problems.


The profit margin on welfare and section 8 homes is not very great. Neither will pay to repair damages to the property until the tenant is dispossessed. Therefore the slumlords will not make repairs without evicting them. Welfare and Section 8 consider a great deal of tenant damage to be "simple wear and tear". As such, better landlords like myself are loathe to rent to welfare or section 8 tenants.


If you don't vent then you don't learn. Apologize to me only if you don't vent or learn :grin:
Sadly what you are seeing comes from a combination of tenants and government. The only people that want to deal with welfare and section 8 are large corporations and slumlords. Small time landlords such as myself cannot afford to rent to such tenants. Too much damage is caused by the tenants that the government will not pay for or will not pay for on a timely basis.

From time to time a social service agent insists that we rent to a subsidy tenant. We present the lease and they choke over it. We insist on payment for tenant caused damages at the time we make repairs - not three years later when the tenant leaves. We insist on rent at the beginning of the month - not fifteen days after the end of the month. We insist on background checks. We insist on the right to evict if the tenant becomes a danger to the rental unit or the neighborhood. In short, we insist on the same respect for our business and property that you expect for your business and property. Most of the social service agents refuse to accept the conditions and leave.

I apologize to you and also to LawnGuy.As I stated in my op I am wondering if a person that receives monetary compensation from a rental property is allowed to do electrical work on that property as permitted by Mgl 143:3L? I am looking for opinions.

I should not have made comments about landlords or the rental issue because I am really not qualified to do so.

I did do an inspection this morning on a garage wired by a home owner as as usually it was a mess.

I wish you well,with your properties.

romeo
 
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