I recently installed a residential service in Southern Ga. It consisted of a 200A Meter Center with a 200A Service disconnect, and provision for 4 - 2 pole breakers, FEED-THRU design. I set a 42 ckt 200A MLO panel in the house. I was turned down on inspection because I did not have a main breaker in this panel. The inspector reasoned that this was the MAIN panel for the house, so it must have a MAIN breaker in it. Although he could not cite a specific code reference, he assured me that this was a requirement of NEC
Main Breaker - Main Panel
- Thread starter hkme
- Start date
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jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
I have installed these before ,often call them trailer panels.As long as that meter/panel was mounted ON the house and you ran seperate neutral and ground then that 42 circuit ML is a sub panel,if thats a violation then someone please cite the article as i think its fine too.
The hardest thing to find is the ones that are not there.
[ February 11, 2004, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
I have installed these before ,often call them trailer panels.As long as that meter/panel was mounted ON the house and you ran seperate neutral and ground then that 42 circuit ML is a sub panel,if thats a violation then someone please cite the article as i think its fine too.
The hardest thing to find is the ones that are not there.
[ February 11, 2004, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
Then your inspector is confused over something.Would call him and if necessary talk to the chief.What you have is a SUB panel.Maybe he is not familar with that meter/disc.
They are excellant for mobiles or homes that will have other buidings.Bottom line is any inspector that cant cite the code should resign or back down.
Then your inspector is confused over something.Would call him and if necessary talk to the chief.What you have is a SUB panel.Maybe he is not familar with that meter/disc.
They are excellant for mobiles or homes that will have other buidings.Bottom line is any inspector that cant cite the code should resign or back down.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
Take him the paper work on it.He must somehow think that meter/disc isn't protecting the panel.
Would give him one more chance to think it over,then go over his head.I reserve doing that only when it is a must and major $$$$$$
Is it possible he thinks that 200 only protects the 4 double poles? The ones i seen have lugs at bottom of bus bars.
Take him the paper work on it.He must somehow think that meter/disc isn't protecting the panel.
Would give him one more chance to think it over,then go over his head.I reserve doing that only when it is a must and major $$$$$$
Is it possible he thinks that 200 only protects the 4 double poles? The ones i seen have lugs at bottom of bus bars.
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
I would agree the panel is a subpanel, but can the feeder really not have its own breaker? If only protected by the main 200A is that feeder sized for 200A ampacity? I would think it would have to be, but still not sure what lets you not put a breaker ahead of the feeder.
I would agree the panel is a subpanel, but can the feeder really not have its own breaker? If only protected by the main 200A is that feeder sized for 200A ampacity? I would think it would have to be, but still not sure what lets you not put a breaker ahead of the feeder.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
Paul,There is a breaker ahead of the feeder,its the 200 amp main.We must assume he used 4/0 aluminum.Why do you feel that the 200 amp main can't protect the sub as well as the 4 double poles? The main limits the total service to 200.
Paul,There is a breaker ahead of the feeder,its the 200 amp main.We must assume he used 4/0 aluminum.Why do you feel that the 200 amp main can't protect the sub as well as the 4 double poles? The main limits the total service to 200.
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
The 2/0 cu SER cable is protected by the 200A Service disconnect, however since this is the "main" panel for the house, the AHJ insists on a main breaker. I have been unable to convince him otherwise! I am going to have to eat the cost, rather than tick him off, and risk the retaliation that is sure to follow. I am not new at this. As they say " A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.
The 2/0 cu SER cable is protected by the 200A Service disconnect, however since this is the "main" panel for the house, the AHJ insists on a main breaker. I have been unable to convince him otherwise! I am going to have to eat the cost, rather than tick him off, and risk the retaliation that is sure to follow. I am not new at this. As they say " A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
I would fight that one. He is clearly wrong.
You have the ground ran to the disconnect. The 42 slot panel now becomes a sub-panel the neutral and ground are bonded in the main panel now, not the 42 slot panel.
Dont eat the cost you did your work right, stand behind it.
Let him know your serious be4 going to his superious, which im sure youve done. Call a different inspection agency, not sure if you can in your area, out here there are more that one inspector you can call
Just my opinion
I would fight that one. He is clearly wrong.
You have the ground ran to the disconnect. The 42 slot panel now becomes a sub-panel the neutral and ground are bonded in the main panel now, not the 42 slot panel.
Dont eat the cost you did your work right, stand behind it.
Let him know your serious be4 going to his superious, which im sure youve done. Call a different inspection agency, not sure if you can in your area, out here there are more that one inspector you can call
Just my opinion
A
a.wayne3@verizon.net
Guest
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
HKME lets clarify this one.the 200 amp disconnect is on the exterior or at the first point of entry into the home right(Is this a mobile home ? ) if it is at the first point of entry or on the exterior near the meter than there is no problem
HKME lets clarify this one.the 200 amp disconnect is on the exterior or at the first point of entry into the home right(Is this a mobile home ? ) if it is at the first point of entry or on the exterior near the meter than there is no problem
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
The electrician showed me that it indeed was not a requirement, and I have never asked for it since. There was no retalliation involved. Why would there be? I was wrong and he was right...that simple!
If you don't call this guy on his citation now, where will it end, and when will you call him on it? You need to teach this inspector.
When I first started inspecting, I asked for a GFCI in an attic, thinking that it was required by 210.63
The electrician showed me that it indeed was not a requirement, and I have never asked for it since. There was no retalliation involved. Why would there be? I was wrong and he was right...that simple! If you don't call this guy on his citation now, where will it end, and when will you call him on it? You need to teach this inspector.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
This inspector needs to be set straight.Should be an easy win.Giving in will only make things worse.If the only way to win is make him look stupid in front of the chief do it.Maybe he will resign.Over little things i give in over something that is hundreds and I'm right NOT A CHANCE.
Print all this out and hand it to him and ask for the article number he is useing.If he refuses or can't(and he can't)then go over his head or you face this guy with self made codes for years to come.And if he harasses you go after his job.
If that 42 circuit ML is the MAIN PANEL then just what the H--- is that thing hanging outside?Will he have you label them both MAIN? Hmmm 2 mains seperated!!!!
This inspector needs to be set straight.Should be an easy win.Giving in will only make things worse.If the only way to win is make him look stupid in front of the chief do it.Maybe he will resign.Over little things i give in over something that is hundreds and I'm right NOT A CHANCE.
Print all this out and hand it to him and ask for the article number he is useing.If he refuses or can't(and he can't)then go over his head or you face this guy with self made codes for years to come.And if he harasses you go after his job.
If that 42 circuit ML is the MAIN PANEL then just what the H--- is that thing hanging outside?Will he have you label them both MAIN? Hmmm 2 mains seperated!!!!
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
Now you even have Ryan backing you an he is an inspector.
The few times i have had proof that i was right the inspector backed down and no big deal,he goofed plain and simple.Going to the chief is something i only done twice,and i was right both times.Was no retaliation over it,just an inspector getting over ruled and covering his own butt for what he believed in .
Now you even have Ryan backing you an he is an inspector.
The few times i have had proof that i was right the inspector backed down and no big deal,he goofed plain and simple.Going to the chief is something i only done twice,and i was right both times.Was no retaliation over it,just an inspector getting over ruled and covering his own butt for what he believed in .
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
Jim you're replying to yourself again.
Settle down Beavis!
Jim you're replying to yourself again.
Settle down Beavis!
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
Originally posted by ryan_618:
Settle down Beavis!
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
Sorry,i will go stand in corner LOL
Sorry,i will go stand in corner LOL
russ
Senior Member
- Location
- Burbank IL
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
Maybe you can reason with him that in 310.15(B)(6), it describes the lighting and appliance panel board being separate from the main disconnect.
This chapter is on wiring, but describes your situation.
Then I would go to 408.16, to show him that no where, does it state that a lighting panel is required to have a main breaker in the panel itself.
Maybe you can reason with him that in 310.15(B)(6), it describes the lighting and appliance panel board being separate from the main disconnect.
This chapter is on wiring, but describes your situation.
Then I would go to 408.16, to show him that no where, does it state that a lighting panel is required to have a main breaker in the panel itself.
david
Senior Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
__________________________________________________
I recently installed a residential service in Southern Ga. It consisted of a 200A Meter Center with a 200A Service disconnect, and provision for 4 - 2 pole breakers?
--------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________?The 2/0 cu SER cable is protected by the 200A Service disconnect, however since this is the "main" panel for the house?
_________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
? Maybe you can reason with him that in 310.15(B)(6), it describes ?
__________________________________________________
Rus
Are you sure you want to take him to 310.15(B)(6) when he is feeding a 200 amp sub panel with 2/0 copper that has an ampacity of 175 amps.
__________________________________________________
I recently installed a residential service in Southern Ga. It consisted of a 200A Meter Center with a 200A Service disconnect, and provision for 4 - 2 pole breakers?
--------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________?The 2/0 cu SER cable is protected by the 200A Service disconnect, however since this is the "main" panel for the house?
_________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
? Maybe you can reason with him that in 310.15(B)(6), it describes ?
__________________________________________________
Rus
Are you sure you want to take him to 310.15(B)(6) when he is feeding a 200 amp sub panel with 2/0 copper that has an ampacity of 175 amps.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Main Breaker - Main Panel
A 175 amp service is 1/0 copper.
David Table 310.15(B)(6) Conductor Types and Sizes for 120/240-Volt, 3-Wire, Single-Phase Dwelling Services and Feeders. allows 2/0 copper for use with a 200 amp service.
A 175 amp service is 1/0 copper.
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