Main Disconnect for service connectors

[LRRP_C_CO_67-69]

House electrical just upgraded from 100a to 200a. A new garage was built as well and the new riser, 200a meter box with a main 200a disconnect box directly below it was installed there because it was closer to the utility pole than the house. The feeders from the main disconnect to the house were buried in Sch80 and the new 200a main house panel was wired as a subpanel, which also has (2) 60 amp sub panels feeds, one to the garage and one to a small storage/work shed.

The garage is theoretically attached to the house by a roof and walkway but to me nevertheless represents a detached garage and separate building. The service feeders enter the main house subpanel direct to the lugs without a main breaker or non-fuse disconnect. Neither of the 60 amp subpanels have a main breaker or disconnect because they both have 6 or less breakers to shut off all power, which I believe is allowable in lieu of a single main breaker.

My question is doesn't the main house subpanel require a 200 amp main breaker as well at its nearest point where the feeders enter the home structure? The main disconnect just below the meter on the garage building was naturally installed to meet code where the service feeders enter the garage building but it doesn't seem to satisfy the code for the main house subpanel. Distance from main disconnect to house panel is only 20 feet but I don't think distance matters at all but rather the fact that the other end of the service feeders are entering a building to a panel with far greater than 6 breaker disconnects.

Am I right or wrong that a main 200a breaker is missing from the point where the feeders enter the house panel?

 

[tom baker]

Was there an electrical permit and inspection?

 

[electrofelon]

House electrical just upgraded from 100a to 200a. A new garage was built as well and the new riser, 200a meter box with a main 200a disconnect box directly below it was installed there because it was closer to the utility pole than the house. The feeders from the main disconnect to the house were buried in Sch80 and the new 200a main house panel was wired as a subpanel, which also has (2) 60 amp sub panels feeds, one to the garage and one to a small storage/work shed.

The garage is theoretically attached to the house by a roof and walkway but to me nevertheless represents a detached garage and separate building. The service feeders enter the main house subpanel direct to the lugs without a main breaker or non-fuse disconnect. Neither of the 60 amp subpanels have a main breaker or disconnect because they both have 6 or less breakers to shut off all power, which I believe is allowable in lieu of a single main breaker.

My question is doesn't the main house subpanel require a 200 amp main breaker as well at its nearest point where the feeders enter the home structure? The main disconnect just below the meter on the garage building was naturally installed to meet code where the service feeders enter the garage building but it doesn't seem to satisfy the code for the main house subpanel. Distance from main disconnect to house panel is only 20 feet but I don't think distance matters at all but rather the fact that the other end of the service feeders are entering a building to a panel with far greater than 6 breaker disconnects.

Am I right or wrong that a main 200a breaker is missing from the point where the feeders enter the house panel?

sounds like one structure to me, no main breaker needed in the house.

 

[James L]

I rewired a house a couple of years ago, where they added a detached garage with apartment above. Turned out it wasn't allowed to have a kitchen above a detached garage. But the structure was already built.

Designer came up with similar to what's described in the OP - a partition wall (with roof) connecting the house and garage. An open breezeway they called it.

Suddenly it was an attached garage and the kitchen above it was ok

Functionally no different from a detached garage.

 

[LRRP_C_CO_67-69]

Was there an electrical permit and inspection?

The county here where the home is located (Georgia) is one of the only two in the state with no building department and no inspections except for septic. All of the work was performed to NEC but the absence of the main breaker in a building that I construed to be separate raised the question regarding the panel.

thx

 

[LRRP_C_CO_67-69]

sounds like one structure to me, no main breaker needed in the house.

Thanks for the reply. I did receive a rather belated response from a retired building inspector for the state in which the house is located. The building code, more specifically the fire code, related to the house and garage actually determines the electrical requirements from what was explained to me. The home either has to have an attachment a minimum of 10' in width to be defined as "attached" or a minimum separation of 12' to be classified as "detached."

I was told that if the pedway, or breezeway had an adjoining roof that spanned 10' or wider, then the home would be defined as having an attached garage. It was also stated that if the garage was not a minimum of 12' from the house structure that it would be required to be attached to the home by rated walls and roof or a pedway covered by a continual roof between the house structure and garage in order to meet code.

So it appears that since the garage in my instance is less than 12' from the house structure and has a continual roof between the buildings of at least 10' then it is defined as attached and explains why the house panel would not be required to have a main breaker as well.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[LRRP_C_CO_67-69]

I rewired a house a couple of years ago, where they added a detached garage with apartment above. Turned out it wasn't allowed to have a kitchen above a detached garage. But the structure was already built.

Designer came up with similar to what's described in the OP - a partition wall (with roof) connecting the house and garage. An open breezeway they called it.

Suddenly it was an attached garage and the kitchen above it was ok

Functionally no different from a detached garage.

Thanks for the reply. As stated in a separate response I finally received contact from a retired building inspector for the state where the house is located. The answer lies with the fire code and the definitions of detached vs. attached garages. If there is a pedway that is covered by a continual roof between the buildings a minimum of 10' wide, or connected by rated walls and roof of the same dimensions or greater then the garage is defined as "attached." A detached garage must be a minimum of 12' in distance from the house structure and share no common roof. If the garage is less than 12' from the house, it must by code become attached by one of the methods meeting the definition of an attached garage in order to meet code.

So much like your description, it appears I'm good to go without a main breaker at the house panel as well.

Thanks again.

 

[kwired]

If it is indeed two separate structures then you can't run the feed through one structure to get to the other, which I think is what you described at one point.

Fire rating often required between house and garage but doesn't necessarily make them separate structures either.

 

[LRRP_C_CO_67-69]

If it is indeed two separate structures then you can't run the feed through one structure to get to the other, which I think is what you described at one point.

Fire rating often required between house and garage but doesn't necessarily make them separate structures either.

Not certain where I would have described what you're stating but the feeds do not run through one structure to get to the other at any point. The new garage was built in a location on the lot that placed it closer to the utility pole such that the electric company planning rep. stated that the new meter and disconnect would need to be placed on the garage building exterior rather than the house. The feeds from the garage main disconnect to the house panel were buried in schedule 80 over to the new 200a house panel. At no point do the feeds travel through either the new garage or the existing house but merely up the exterior walls from the main disconnect to the new house panel. The feeders obviously enter the exterior wall of the house structure where the new panel is located but are all exterior at the garage structure.

The garage has been defined by the former building inspector specifically as "attached" solely because it is situated less than 12' from the house structure and therefore must comply with the fire ratings of the building code that include a continual roof between the structures with 2 layers of type x drywall at each point above the walls where the roof of the two structures meet on either end, fire-taped per code to create a rated fire-wall in the attic area. The pedway, or breezeway, may remain open or alternatively enclosed with rated walls but the roof width must be 10' or greater.

In short, the garage in my instance cannot be defined as separate under any circumstances because its footprint is less than 12' from the house structure.

The inspector did not state that fire rating measures created separate structures, nor do I believe that I made the statement in a review of my comments. He stated that a garage that is a minimum of 12' from the house structure and shares no common roof is defined as a separate structure and that an attached garage was a structure less than 12' from the house structure and as such, required fire rating measures whether it was part of the common walls of the house or separated by a pedway and common roof up to the maximum distance.

So in review of my comments, I see where I neither stated that fire rating defined attached or separate structures but instead that any garage defined as attached required fire rating. Separate garages are not defined by fire rating, nor does fire rating alter the definition of any garage as attached or detached. The bottom line was that all garages defined as attached require fire rating. The only fire rating required in garages defined as separate are in instances where there is a living space (carriage house) situated above a garage defined as separate.

 

[kwired]

Not certain where I would have described what you're stating but the feeds do not run through one structure to get to the other at any point. The new garage was built in a location on the lot that placed it closer to the utility pole such that the electric company planning rep. stated that the new meter and disconnect would need to be placed on the garage building exterior rather than the house. The feeds from the garage main disconnect to the house panel were buried in schedule 80 over to the new 200a house panel. At no point do the feeds travel through either the new garage or the existing house but merely up the exterior walls from the main disconnect to the new house panel. The feeders obviously enter the exterior wall of the house structure where the new panel is located but are all exterior at the garage structure.

The garage has been defined by the former building inspector specifically as "attached" solely because it is situated less than 12' from the house structure and therefore must comply with the fire ratings of the building code that include a continual roof between the structures with 2 layers of type x drywall at each point above the walls where the roof of the two structures meet on either end, fire-taped per code to create a rated fire-wall in the attic area. The pedway, or breezeway, may remain open or alternatively enclosed with rated walls but the roof width must be 10' or greater.

In short, the garage in my instance cannot be defined as separate under any circumstances because its footprint is less than 12' from the house structure.

The inspector did not state that fire rating measures created separate structures, nor do I believe that I made the statement in a review of my comments. He stated that a garage that is a minimum of 12' from the house structure and shares no common roof is defined as a separate structure and that an attached garage was a structure less than 12' from the house structure and as such, required fire rating measures whether it was part of the common walls of the house or separated by a pedway and common roof up to the maximum distance.

So in review of my comments, I see where I neither stated that fire rating defined attached or separate structures but instead that any garage defined as attached required fire rating. Separate garages are not defined by fire rating, nor does fire rating alter the definition of any garage as attached or detached. The bottom line was that all garages defined as attached require fire rating. The only fire rating required in garages defined as separate are in instances where there is a living space (carriage house) situated above a garage defined as separate.

I must have misunderstood something, thought I seen something indicating the feed to the house passes through garage, and then a feed back from house to the garage, which may not be prohibited but seems redundant if that is what you have, use a meter-main with branch breaker spaces and feed through lugs or meter-main and terminal box or something similar in that situation to split your feeder.

Still sounds like you only have one structure therefore only one service disconnect. Everything past there is feeders in/on same structure. Doesn't matter if they pass underground to get to a different location on that same structure.

 

[LRRP_C_CO_67-69]

No problem at all. I believe it possibly may have been my mention of a 60amp subpanel that went from the main house panel back to the garage to provide the lights/recepticles and garage door opener. It does seem somewhat redundant and the power company rep. did mention branching off the feeders at the garage but I already had the trench and sch80 pipe in place when I trenched the main feeders from garage to house. I decided to just stay with my original plan and finish up.

thanks