Main Electrical Room on 2nd Floor?

[SonicDeathMonkey]

Obviously it's not the greatest idea to have the main electrical room on the 2nd floor of a new mid-size commercial building...

But, does it violate any codes? My gut says there is probably at least one code against it, but maybe not.
I would think at the very least, most AHJ's would want a shunt-trip device on the exterior to disconnect the main breaker.

Thanks,
Ryan

 

[petersonra]

why anyone care?

 

[kwired]

Obviously it's not the greatest idea to have the main electrical room on the 2nd floor of a new mid-size commercial building...

But, does it violate any codes? My gut says there is probably at least one code against it, but maybe not.
I would think at the very least, most AHJ's would want a shunt-trip device on the exterior to disconnect the main breaker.

Thanks,
Ryan

Why is it any different then the millions of homes that have the service located in a basement?

It is a problem only if you have local amendments that may make the service disconnect required to be in specific locations.

Only NEC problems I can think of that may have an increased risk of happening is concrning how much service entrance conductor may be "inside" the building. Encasement in 2 inches of concrete however is acceptable to NEC for considering them to be outside the building.

 

[MEP_PM]

Encasement in 2 inches of concrete however is acceptable to NEC for considering them to be outside the building.

I was on a project that had a second floor electrical room and we encased the service from below grade into the bottom of service equipment like you indicated. Something to consider in an area that could potentially flood.

 

[SonicDeathMonkey]

Why is it any different then the millions of homes that have the service located in a basement?

It is a problem only if you have local amendments that may make the service disconnect required to be in specific locations.

Only NEC problems I can think of that may have an increased risk of happening is concrning how much service entrance conductor may be "inside" the building. Encasement in 2 inches of concrete however is acceptable to NEC for considering them to be outside the building.

Maybe it's not different than that. I haven't done many residential jobs. In commercial, some jurisdictions require easy access to the main disconnect. Some require an exterior means of disconnect. Some require an exterior door to the electrical room. It's just a way help emergency personnel cut the power as quickly and easily as possible in the event of something like a fire.

The concrete encasement is a good point, thanks for that reminder. I think I'll just call the local inspector and ask if he would have any objections.

Thank you for the help. If anyone else has anything to add, please do.

 

[petersonra]

Maybe it's not different than that. I haven't done many residential jobs. In commercial, some jurisdictions require easy access to the main disconnect. Some require an exterior means of disconnect. Some require an exterior door to the electrical room. It's just a way help emergency personnel cut the power as quickly and easily as possible in the event of something like a fire.

The concrete encasement is a good point, thanks for that reminder. I think I'll just call the local inspector and ask if he would have any objections.

Thank you for the help. If anyone else has anything to add, please do.

how can they "require" something that is not required by the code unless there is some local amendment?

 

[GoldDigger]

Well. POCO can require all sorts of things by contract. But for the city to add requirements does mean a local amendment.
Some provisions, like "nearest the point of entry" are left to local interpretation with no written policy required.

 

[cowboyjwc]

If you mean main as in the meter being there I would talk with the local POCO. If the meter is outside and everything else is on the second floor, then I don't see any problem.

 

[kwired]

I was on a project that had a second floor electrical room and we encased the service from below grade into the bottom of service equipment like you indicated. Something to consider in an area that could potentially flood.

So everything washes away in the flood - except for the service equipment on that two story concrete pedestal

Maybe it's not different than that. I haven't done many residential jobs. In commercial, some jurisdictions require easy access to the main disconnect. Some require an exterior means of disconnect. Some require an exterior door to the electrical room. It's just a way help emergency personnel cut the power as quickly and easily as possible in the event of something like a fire.

The concrete encasement is a good point, thanks for that reminder. I think I'll just call the local inspector and ask if he would have any objections.

Thank you for the help. If anyone else has anything to add, please do.

Even service conductors on outside of building that enter through exterior wall and hit a service disconnecting means right away would still meet NEC requirements.

I have even heard of POCO's having transformer vault on roof of a building in some occasions from which service to that building is supplied to whatever floor is below that roof.

Any such prohibitions to certain locations would be local rules or possibly POCO rules but not anything in NEC.

 

[robbietan]

Obviously it's not the greatest idea to have the main electrical room on the 2nd floor of a new mid-size commercial building...

But, does it violate any codes? My gut says there is probably at least one code against it, but maybe not.
I would think at the very least, most AHJ's would want a shunt-trip device on the exterior to disconnect the main breaker.

Thanks,
Ryan

the poco here in the philippines require that the main electrical room be located above flood lines. sometimes, it is the customer's 2nd floor building

 

[robbietan]

how can they "require" something that is not required by the code unless there is some local amendment?

the poco here looks at the code as "minimum requirement" and has sometimes upped the requirements in the name of safety. but all requirements are still code based

 

[iwire]

Obviously it's not the greatest idea to have the main electrical room on the 2nd floor of a new mid-size commercial building...

But, does it violate any codes? My gut says there is probably at least one code against it, but maybe not.
I would think at the very least, most AHJ's would want a shunt-trip device on the exterior to disconnect the main breaker.

Thanks,
Ryan

We do a ton of large retail and other work. Many of the main electric rooms are on a second level or often a prefab building placed on the roof.

Not an NEC violation in the least with proper care of the routing of the service conductors.

 

[kwired]

Originally Posted by petersonra how can they "require" something that is not required by the code unless there is some local amendment?


the poco here looks at the code as "minimum requirement" and has sometimes upped the requirements in the name of safety. but all requirements are still code based

I don't believe petersonra was referring to a POCO but rather an AHJ in the portion you quoted. But POCO's often do have requirements that are not in sync with NEC, and that is just business - if you don't like their rules you don't have to subscribe to their service, but that typically means you will have on site power generation in most cases.

There can be times when POCO wants something that does violate NEC, that is when there are problems and when it does happen POCO and AHJ usually need to get together and agree on some compromise somewhere or the user is still stuck without power.

 

[infinity]

It's common around here in post Sandy to design new or move critical systems above grade to prevent destruction during flooding. Even old buildings are being redone to move services and pumps, etc. that traditionally went in the basement above grade to higher floors. As far as SEC's just encase them in concrete.

 

[tom baker]

For a three story building having the main room on the second floor allows for shorter runs to feeder panels on 2nd and 3 rd floors
Conduit could run up outside of bldg and then into electrical room.

 

[tom baker]

It's common around here in post Sandy to design new or move critical systems above grade to prevent destruction during flooding. Even old buildings are being redone to move services and pumps, etc. that traditionally went in the basement above grade to higher floors. As far as SEC's just encase them in concrete.

Great pictures thanks for posting those. I like the black and yellow stripes

 

[iwire]

Are they really high voltage?

 

[infinity]

Are they really high voltage?

Come to think of it I believe that they were 4160.

 

[GoldDigger]

Somehow "Danger: Medium Voltage" does seem to do the situation justice.