LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
The reverse can also happen: the more tickle you feel, the harder you will squeeze.
The electricity usually wins that war.
Maintenance man almost got fried !!!
- Thread starter Mule
- Start date
- Status
The electricity usually wins that war.
76nemo
Senior Member
- Location
- Ogdensburg, NY
If I could only sware,..............
Why are some of you guys/gals using the old Wiggy's that have no CAT rating?????
Why doesn't it scare you because it was ONLY 480V????? Are you kidding me??? Why does the voltage level determine your personal worry????
Darn it, darn it, darn it. It seems there's sometimes no concern for the proper PPE, and then again, I hear discussions like this. Where do you think the negative statistics come from????????
Darn it
Why are some of you guys/gals using the old Wiggy's that have no CAT rating?????
Why doesn't it scare you because it was ONLY 480V????? Are you kidding me??? Why does the voltage level determine your personal worry????
Darn it, darn it, darn it. It seems there's sometimes no concern for the proper PPE, and then again, I hear discussions like this. Where do you think the negative statistics come from????????
Darn it
If I could only sware,..............
Why are some of you guys/gals using the old Wiggy's that have no CAT rating?????
Why doesn't it scare you because it was ONLY 480V????? Are you kidding me??? Why does the voltage level determine your personal worry????
Darn it, darn it, darn it. It seems there's sometimes no concern for the proper PPE, and then again, I hear discussions like this. Where do you think the negative statistics come from????????
Darn it
I thank you for your stern opinions, because safety is a good thing.
I dont know how old you are, but remember that these topics that your talking about havent been around all that long in reguard to the history of the electrician. I for one have never had any traing on Cat ratings of test instruments. Ive had a few "sampler" classes at seminars reguarding arc flash and the new 70E PPE requirments. But in truth the compliance with these issues are just being seen in our area. If you set down at the supply house and wait for a fire rated shirt to come in the door, you may set there all day.... I know of one petro chem company that requires clothing and rated meters, and the local POCO and thats it...
zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
You are missing the whole point, the 70E and OSHA rules (Most of which are not "new" at all) are geared towards not working on energized equipment, so there would be no reason any electrician would walk around all day wearing an FR shirt.
Really? Thanks, but I dont think so, 70E is a relatively new to the regular wireman.....maybe not so to POCO's.....tell me when did it become law? Now when did Wiggy's come out? huge difference Please correct me if Im wrong...
I've worked where they were required FP clothing all of the time.....In fact, around here employers are not taking the efforts to calculate calories, they find that it is cheaper to go to the max and require you to wear the shirt all day...everyone wears jeans, employers dont approach the undergarment issue at all...
as far as working energized equipment, (Im talking normal work for me low voltage systems <600v) Im not going to kill the whole gear to work in one bucket..Im going to use my head
Tell me, out of 10 contractors, how many do you think are going through the whole permit process, and complying with 70E to the hilt???undergarmets..?? Maybe with larger EC's and larger employers, but outside of that, I doubt it seriously...
bradleyelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- forest hill, md
I worked at a steel mill for a few years. Some very old equipment. A lot of the overhead cranes were 250V DC the largest being charging cranes in the shut down Open Hearth mills and the Basic Oxygen Furnaces that replaced them. They are 500ton cranes. One night the linemen were doing some 480V switching and they accidently ended up in a 6900V gear with a wiggy. There were 4 people in the room. I was told the 2 that walked out of the room looked like dazed zombies with their skin melting off them. 1 was holding the wiggy and another touched the leads to the breaker. The 1 that was holding the wiggy was off work over a year and his wife begged him to retire till he did. The other 1 I saw once afterwards when he came to a christmas party. I couldn't go back in the room when he was pretty much carried in.
How does that happen to experienced men that know what they are doing? They were told that was the gear they wanted, didn't realize that the reason the lights on the light box were blowing when they thought they were testing to phase out was because they were on the wrong voltage. They thought they had a defective light box. Took out the wiggy and boom. Make sure you know what your doing when your testing. Don't just walk into something and be lead into something that will end your life as you know it.
How does that happen to experienced men that know what they are doing? They were told that was the gear they wanted, didn't realize that the reason the lights on the light box were blowing when they thought they were testing to phase out was because they were on the wrong voltage. They thought they had a defective light box. Took out the wiggy and boom. Make sure you know what your doing when your testing. Don't just walk into something and be lead into something that will end your life as you know it.
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So the root of the accident was...not knowing what they were working on? Lack of permit? If they did they would have, correct PPE and tools, I assume? It's not the wiggy's fault, that would have fried alot of different equipment, no?
steelersman
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake Ridge, VA
well this guy is 28 so he's not considered to be old school, so I would venture to say that he thinks it's "cool". Kinda like when some kids think it looks "cool" to have a cigarette in their mouth.
steelersman
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake Ridge, VA
you must have some kinda sick fetish. You should seek help immediately.
iaov
Senior Member
- Location
- Rhinelander WI
Good question. This guy is probably not going to see much more than 28 doing anything this STUPID!! There is no other word for it.
steelersman
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake Ridge, VA
steelersman
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake Ridge, VA
John since you're in the same city as MikeGee maybe you can locate him and help him out.
bradleyelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- forest hill, md
The cause as I call it was they had an inexperienced crew leader put in his position for political reasons instead of someone with knowledge being in the possition. They were going from switching station to switching station. One of the top 3 linemen in the facility was sitting on a bench at the shop because he refused to work under that guy.
Crew leader didn't wait for the guys from the onsite power plant to get to the next switching station. He walked in and pointed at a swith gear and said that is it. The marking was a little confusing and it was very old gear that looked like old roll in 480V beastly breakers. He was wrong. The couple guys that were working with him was checking phases with the light sticks and blew the bulb.
The other 2 of the top 3 linemen on the facility walked in and asked what was happening. They were told the light box was bad so the best lineman I ever met who had a lot of experience on the facility pulled out his wiggy and ended his life as he knew it.
The crew from the power station was just walking in the door when the flash happened. If either of the other crews would have gotting there first they wouldn't have been lead to the wrong gear and blindly accepted that that was the correct gear. A lot of the way things were done were changed as a result of that night. Yes that would have fried a lot of test equipment. No one their had 6900V test equipment with them because they were doing 480V switching.
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steelersman
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake Ridge, VA
Well said Mule.You know, there seems to be a certain sense of "male pride" or "toughness" or "Stardum" in being an electrician. You see it in Lineman, and wireman alike. Especially when we talk about working live voltages, or walk around with those rubber gloves on, or talk about testing with our bare fingers.
So if we get past those false senses, and think about safety, our families, and the wellness of others, and, the increasing laws that are put in place to save us from such foolishness, we will realize its SMART to do it right... AND the more we act in the foolish ways, and, the more accidents that happen, the more these laws are put into place, and frankly Im sick of being choked down with such laws.
steelersman
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake Ridge, VA
what do the CAT ratings mean?
triplstep
Member
- Location
- Aurora, Illinois
steelersman, here is some explanation of meter CATegories.
http://www-group.slac.stanford.edu/essg/pdf/ABCs_of_Multimeter_Safety.pdf
http://www-group.slac.stanford.edu/essg/pdf/ABCs_of_Multimeter_Safety.pdf
JohnJ0906
Senior Member
- Location
- Baltimore, MD
Anyone is welcome to contact me. I have certainly been helped enough by others here. :smile:
zog
Senior Member
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
The 1979 NFPA 70E became law in 1981 when OSHA adopted it and it became the electrical safety standards in 10 CFR 1910
1918 is when the wiggiton solenoid voltage tester was 1st manufactured, basically the same technology as the ones many EC's use today.
They are misunderstanding the requirements and will have to answr to OSHA if someone gets hurt.
That decesion is up to you but you are just a stastic waiting to happen, every year over 2000 arc flash victims are sent to burn centers from workplace accidents in the USA.
That number varies regionally, and depens on the size of the EC. Most larger shops have the training and PPE to comply to 70E, many industrial facilities require it to work on site. Smaller shops and ones that work mostly resi jobs it is rare for them to be 70E compliant. But that is changing.
big john
Senior Member
- Location
- Portland, ME
I've heard of accidents like this several times and I'll never really understand them: Maybe it's because I've seen very little medium voltage gear, but the insides of the stuff we have looks absolutely nothing like 480 gear. Wouldn't the stress-cones, grounding braids and insulators be a dead give-away that you were in the wrong terrirory? I can see how guys might not be familiar with what it was, but surely they had to know what it wasn't and I've never heard of 480 that looked like that....
-John
bradleyelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- forest hill, md
They have a lot of gear in that facility that doesn't come close to resembling modern gear. They have 480 gear that doesn't look like 480 gear. As far as I'm concerned they don't have a real good grasp of their distribution system anymore. They have some very antiquated equipment and have lost to much of the personel with experience on the system.
- Status