Making your breaker box look pretty

[LarryFine]

What??? You call that neat? Yuck!

In the "after breaker" pics:

1. Left Panel. The red wire on breaker #7 is sloppy
2. All the wires on the left side of the left panel and the top wires on the left side of the right panel are missing their little identification label made from NM jacket
3. Both panels. White wires not re-identified as ungrounded conductors.
4. Both Panels. The Service entrance conductors are inconsistent. The red wire is on the "A" buss in the right panel and the "B" buss in the left panel.
5. Some of the neutral wires have an "unnatural" bend.

I could go on and on.

Okay, I'll accept the criticism, and I'll respond:

1. Big deal. My helper trimmed that home run a bit short during rough-in. At least we didn't splice it to gain 2".

2. There is no question about which circuit is which on the 2-poles you mentioned. Besides, the sheaths are also marked.

3. You're wrong here. If you look closely, they're colored light blue, more obvious in the before pis, and moreso in person.

4. This matters why? Besides, they're the same way at the mains, so like phases are on the same side of the panels.

5. Huh??? What constitutes a "natural" bend?


Note: I didn't pretty-up the panels for these pics.

 

[Minuteman]

Larry, the panels look great! I was just picking at you.

I don't understand the natural bend thing either, but an inspector here will fail a wire that has tool marks on it to force a bend. A bend must be "natural" to him.

 

[LarryFine]

Larry, the panels look great! I was just picking at you.

I don't understand the natural bend thing either, but an inspector here will fail a wire that has tool marks on it to force a bend. A bend must be "natural" to him.

I wasn't sure. You stunned me with the last two. Patricia (my better third) said "You're kidding!" That was good. Thanx for the kudos, Michael and everyone.

I guess "natural bend" is what you get when you bend a wire with your fingers, with a bit of radius, and not a sharp 90 like you'd get bending with a pair of Kleins.

I had no intention of taking pics when I made up these panels. This is real-world work, and not something I'd have spent twice the time on for, say, a magazine shoot.

For what it's worth, this house is 7800 sq.ft., we passed both rough and final on the first try, and we had exactly zero shorts upon circuit energization.

Patricia tool many other pictures of this job, including the phone, networking, satellite, A/V, etc. work we did. I'll make up a gallery of some sort. We're proud of it.

 

[George Stolz]

Now, Larry, the re-identified white on the left bank of the left panel is not technically right; the ID is not at the termination, it peters out a few inches prior.

Good panels, bud.

 

[Minuteman]

Larry,

In my own warped sense of humor, I was try to say that even a near perfect set of panels such as those two, could be picked apart. I quickly ran out of "brilliance" so I tried to baffle with b.s.

Now, about the panel I was in today:

1. 4/0 AL feeders
2. Maxed out with G.E. thins.
3. Most wires too long and "looped".
4. Some breakers "double lugged"
5. No tags or legend telling what circuit goes where.

 

[anthony001]

Speaking of panels maxed out with G.E. thins I was recently on a job doing some fixture swaps and a light lift. The H.O. asked me about landscape lighting and how many they would need This is a 5000 sqft home, brand new development where the houses range from the 900's to 1.5m. I went to see there panel because I would of needed to add a circuit. Needless to say packed to the gills 200 amp GE with all slims only one opening left. This just seemed a little ridiculous to me all that money and no room for future HRs.

 

[tonyi]

I usually try to avoid TQP/THQP's on anything larger than 20A. The contact area and fingers just don't seem as robust as a THQL.

 

[sroc2006]

Don't know how true it is but I was once told that if the inspector sees a real neatly done panel, he won't look so close to anything else.

Always leave one obvious mistake for the inspector to find, otherwise he'll search until he finds one. I like to leave a cover off of a GFCI outlet for him to find.

 

[macmikeman]

Always leave one obvious mistake for the inspector to find, otherwise he'll search until he finds one. I like to leave a cover off of a GFCI outlet for him to find.

I think it is an old wives tale. I try to never leave any loose ends, on purpose or otherwise.

 

[JohnE]

Always leave one obvious mistake for the inspector to find, otherwise he'll search until he finds one. I like to leave a cover off of a GFCI outlet for him to find.

I think it is an old wives tale. I try to never leave any loose ends, on purpose or otherwise.

I agree, I never try to leave a loose end.

With that said, my father used to encounter one certain inspector who looked and looked until he found something to red tag. Would always only find one violation, and would come back for reinspection. He said that he had to resort to leaving a plate off in a conspicuous location.

Years later while meeting with that inspector, he always inquired about my father and went out of his way to compliment him. Go figure.

 

[scwirenut]

I think those are great looking panels, the only thing i see is a violation of 312.6b the 4/0 feeders are coming straight into the lugs, which i believe can only be done with "lay-in " lugs as in a meter base., I always use an "s" loop, other than that, good work..........

 

[Gmack]

Some years back I had a very cocky journeyman "try" me at lunch break in front of 10 or 12 other various electricians and the GC Supt.

He asked me how I trimmed out panels.

I explained, that I take each circuit well below the bus bars and breakers and then loop back up to land.

He loudly derailed my method and proclaimed that he took each wire "directly" to its destination without any slack. "Looked better"

Well, I was subbed in and he was the job runner and he put me in charge of the electrical panel rooms and I did everything my way anyway.

On start up he came running into one panel room where I was working, he gazed at one panel, loudly saying that he made a mistake on the panel schedule and that one 3 phase breaker was in the wrong place.

ON THE WRONG SIDE!

Upon examination he discovered my method of leaving extra wire by looping, he was then able to swap out the breaker to the other side of the panel where the load and schedule "agreed".

To his credit, he again in a loud manner said" Thats why we leave extra wire in panels.

The GC Supt was standing in the doorway and broke out in laughter.

In that same company all electricians are taught to not leave loops in pull boxes either.

Makes it a pain when another mistake comes up and a pull box needs to become a junction box.

.

 

[izak]

SCWIRENUT

WHAT violation of 312.6b can you say about those 4/0 feeders coming straight down into those lugs??

all 312.6 b says in that APPLICATION is that there must be At Least 4 inches of space between the lug and the wall from which it enters...

please clarify if you dont mind..

 

[izak]

that is not to say that some slack ANYWHERE is not a good idea
but
that isnt a code violation

 

[cowboyjwc]

I love to see a clean panel, makes it so much easier to inspect.

But please leave the tie wraps at home. The poor guy that comes in after you just has to cut them all off and chance nicking a wire.

 

[luckyshadow]

AMEN !! on the tie wraps !!!!!
I hate to see tie wraps in a panel :x
Not only can it become a Pain in the backside but have you ever looked closely at those bundles of wire after cutting away the tie wraps ?
I have and I have found many a "hot" spots on the conductors where the heat has been building up.
In my opinion tie wrapping in a panel is a problem just waiting to surface.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Yeah, isn't it funny that the same guy who will smack talk somebody for running a bunch of cables through a 2" connector will then bundle up all his wire in the panel and wrap a tie wrap around them as tight as he can.