Man was shocked yesterday.

[Minuteman]

WHAT difference would a loaded up neutral make ?

It's from the Stupidest Comment thread.

 

[quogueelectric]

It's from the Stupidest Comment thread.

Loaded up neutral may be technically incorrect yet a shock recieved from the load side of the ballast could through the making and breaking of a highly inductive load push the voltages much higher than being shocked on the line side of the ballast. Supply voltage straight up. Often getting shocked on the neutral is more of a surprise factor in my opinion. This wire is grounded so it is safe. Oh btw just dont break the ckt.

 

[Minuteman]

If he had bent over the end of the wire before pushing it it wouldn't have likely landed inside the wire-nut. I agree we shouldn't be working live, but sometimes we cut corners. Glad hes ok.

You are right, It is the "ifs" that would have prevented this. If he had of shut down the main to the entire office building. If he would have bent the wire over (as you suggest, and I most often do). If he had of looked into the J-box himself and saw the orange and gray. If he or the apprentice had of used a meter or non contact voltage detector. If he had kept his work gloves on. If he would have been pushing a longer piece of wire or from the roll. If he would have installed a new conduit or new M/C. If, if, if...

But, he didn't.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

The example shown in what the OP showed in his thread really is not necessarily bad work habits, as it seems they tried to make sure they were safe condition to work in.

What is does show is that there are always conditions on jobsites of any kind that we need to be aware of and that there are conditions in this industry that can hurt/or/kill one, even when safety precautions are being followed.

Use their experience and yours to keep alert and learning everyday.

 

[brian john]

That 277 is bad, esspecially a loaded up neutral.

And to that I say horse hockey, I doubt you can tell the difference as you shake, sustain physical damage to body parts and think LET ME GO.

 

[LarryFine]

Often getting shocked on the neutral is more of a surprise factor in my opinion. This wire is grounded so it is safe.

I look at it like this: The grounded conductor is insulated for a reason, and I treat it that way.

 

[peter d]

FWIW I strognly dislike these "The neutral is more dangerous than the hot" and "277 is really bad" characterizations.

Any amount of current over 5 milliamps is lethal! It does not matter if that current arrives on your body from a grounded, ungrounded conductor, a 120 volt circuit, a 277 volt circuit, or a 480 volt circuit...it will kill or injure you nonetheless.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I look at it like this: The grounded conductor is insulated for a reason, and I treat it that way.

This is a good statement to be able to use in the training process. I like it and will use it.
Thanks Larry

 

[220/221]

Hmmm....don't you generally fold over the end when you are pushing a conductor in a conduit so it doesn't get hung up on the connectors/couplings? And he had his hand on the little exposed cut off end while pushing? He must have had it measured just right. I suppose it could happen.

Hidden 277v hot above a tee bar ceiling, me on an 8' ladder, left hand on a 1/2" EMT, right hand pokes onto the hot wire, with elbow blocked by another conduit.

Great story but....Ouch !! Did you go back and investigate the hot wire? Who would leave an expose live wire like that? I'd hunt them down and kick the crap out of them.....or sue the crap out of them. I am always very cautious above grids....lot of grounding sources about arm/chest level.

 

[iwire]

Isn't the neutral is insulated to isolate it from grounded objects?

The fact we do not have to insulate the neutral at the service kind of removes the personal safety argument.

Breaking a neutral that is carrying current is certainly a personal and property safety issue.

 

[brian john]

FWIW I strognly dislike these "The neutral is more dangerous than the hot" and "277 is really bad" characterizations.

Any amount of current over 5 milliamps is lethal! It does not matter if that current arrives on your body from a grounded, ungrounded conductor, a 120 volt circuit, a 277 volt circuit, or a 480 volt circuit...it will kill or injure you nonetheless.

And for my vote 120 VAC ain't safe either.

 

[peter d]

And for my vote 120 VAC ain't safe either.

I agree totally. My main point is that there are certain mantras we hear in the trade that are just plain dumb and downright misleading and dangerous IMO.

 

[Kdog76]

You mean like " 120 will grab you, and 480 will throw you off? "

 

[sparkchaser1961]

Too bad the wirenuts weren't taped. Then the wire wouldn't have been energized. Or maybe use a fiberglass fishtape.