Manual or Automatic Transfer Switch ?

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goldstar

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
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Electrical Contractor
I have a somewhat difficult (potential) customer who wants to have a generator for her summer house. She lives in NYC most of the time but comes here to NJ on the weekends. It's a small house on a dirt road in a remote area of town. I've started out with a 10KW unit and an automatic xfer switch. She does not have NG so we were looking at LP. The initial location of the gen set was ok in the rear of her house but the LP tank has to be at least 10' away from the generator and at least 3' away from any window that opens. She did not want to seal up a basement window so that blew that deal.

Then we looked at installing the generator on her black-top patio in the back yard. I would have had to trench about 20' to put the PVC underground and the tank would have been on the opposite side of the patio. She didn't want that. Then we looked at putting the unit further in the back yard (another 20' or so of trenching). She didn't want that.

So, now were looking at a portable dual fuel unit. She has a 100A service with an outdoor disconnect next to the meter pan. I can't seem to find a manual, whole house transfer switch that is service rated. Would I be able to use an automatic switch like this one :

https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Generac-RXSW100A3/p77433.html

Even though I don't have a stationary standby unit ? My thinking is to install a 30A power inlet box like this one :

https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-PB30/p1088.html

Connected to the load transfer side of the xfer switch. Am I way off base here and over-thinking this or is there a better way ?
 
goldstar said:
I have a somewhat difficult (potential) customer who wants to have a generator for her summer house. She lives in NYC most of the time but comes here to NJ on the weekends. It's a small house on a dirt road in a remote area of town. I've started out with a 10KW unit and an automatic xfer switch. She does not have NG so we were looking at LP. The initial location of the gen set was ok in the rear of her house but the LP tank has to be at least 10' away from the generator and at least 3' away from any window that opens. She did not want to seal up a basement window so that blew that deal.

Then we looked at installing the generator on her black-top patio in the back yard. I would have had to trench about 20' to put the PVC underground and the tank would have been on the opposite side of the patio. She didn't want that. Then we looked at putting the unit further in the back yard (another 20' or so of trenching). She didn't want that.

So, now were looking at a portable dual fuel unit. She has a 100A service with an outdoor disconnect next to the meter pan. I can't seem to find a manual, whole house transfer switch that is service rated. Would I be able to use an automatic switch like this one :

https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Generac-RXSW100A3/p77433.html

Even though I don't have a stationary standby unit ? My thinking is to install a 30A power inlet box like this one :

https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-PB30/p1088.html

Connected to the load transfer side of the xfer switch. Am I way off base here and over-thinking this or is there a better way ?
Click to expand...

Are you planning to shed any loads? If you are using a manual transfer switch and control the loads manually, I believe it doesn't have to be rated for the full service, just the connected loads.
 
goldstar said:
She has a 100A service with an outdoor disconnect next to the meter pan. I can't seem to find a manual, whole house transfer switch that is service rated.
Click to expand...
With the existing disconnect, your transfer switch doesn't have to be service-rated. Just connect it after the disconnect, which remains the service disconnect.

Now all you have to do is find a manual transfer switch that is rated for the 100 amps.

Added: ​What he ^^ said.
 
goldstar said:
I have a somewhat difficult (potential) customer who wants to have a generator for her summer house. She lives in NYC most of the time but comes here to NJ on the weekends. It's a small house on a dirt road in a remote area of town. I've started out with a 10KW unit and an automatic xfer switch. She does not have NG so we were looking at LP. The initial location of the gen set was ok in the rear of her house but the LP tank has to be at least 10' away from the generator and at least 3' away from any window that opens. She did not want to seal up a basement window so that blew that deal.

Then we looked at installing the generator on her black-top patio in the back yard. I would have had to trench about 20' to put the PVC underground and the tank would have been on the opposite side of the patio. She didn't want that. Then we looked at putting the unit further in the back yard (another 20' or so of trenching). She didn't want that.

So, now were looking at a portable dual fuel unit. She has a 100A service with an outdoor disconnect next to the meter pan. I can't seem to find a manual, whole house transfer switch that is service rated. Would I be able to use an automatic switch like this one :

https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Generac-RXSW100A3/p77433.html

Even though I don't have a stationary standby unit ? My thinking is to install a 30A power inlet box like this one :

https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-PB30/p1088.html

Connected to the load transfer side of the xfer switch. Am I way off base here and over-thinking this or is there a better way ?
Click to expand...
Is the reason she wants a MTS instead of an ATS that it is a summer house and she doesn't want the generator to fire up when she is away? If so, why not install an ATS and tell her to shut off the fuel supply to the genny when she isn't there?
 
ggunn said:
Is the reason she wants a MTS instead of an ATS that it is a summer house and she doesn't want the generator to fire up when she is away? If so, why not install an ATS and tell her to shut off the fuel supply to the genny when she isn't there?
Click to expand...
Because the genny would still try to crank, discharging the battery. Better of switching the generator off.
 
ActionDave said:
The transfer switch doesn't have to be service rated if you put it after the service disconnect.
Click to expand...
That's part of the problem. This is an existing installation where the meter enclosure and disconnect are mounted on a house with asbestos siding. There's not much room to make any changes. This woman thinks she lives in a mansion but if you look at this tiny little house it looks like it was slapped together gum and reclaimed lumber.

And then, after I come up with all kinds of new suggestions about where to put the generator, trenching for PVC, location of the LP tank she says "How much more is this going to cost me"? AND THEN WE START ALL OVER !!!

I was trying to come up with something that was basically fool-proof for someone who has no idea what it takes to power a house. If this woman is not this house during the week and there's a power outage she will have to rely on someone to come over and start the generator, plug it in and throw the xfer switch and then put gas in it when it runs out. While all of this seems easy for people like us, this is like a bar exam for someone like her or one of her neighbors.
 
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