Manufacture spec's what does this mean?

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Sierrasparky

Sierrasparky

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Electrician ,contractor
Found this in the installation instructions on a kitchen fan.

"A 120-Volt, 60 Hz, AC-only (USA & Canada standard), fused electrical supply is required on a separate 15-amp circuit, fused on both sides of the line."

Fused on both sides of the line? WOW what are they thinking.
This device is only 380 watts.
 
Sierrasparky said:
Found this in the installation instructions on a kitchen fan.

"A 120-Volt, 60 Hz, AC-only (USA & Canada standard), fused electrical supply is required on a separate 15-amp circuit, fused on both sides of the line."

Fused on both sides of the line? WOW what are they thinking.
This device is only 380 watts.
Click to expand...

Wow is right, what make, model is the fan?
 
Does that mean OCPD on the branch circuit and an internal fuse, or that they want the ungrounded and grounded conductors both fused? If the latter, is that possibly an extremely poor description of using a GFCI breaker, or that any disconnect means must also break the neutral... or that the supply simply must have an OCPD?

Also, with the word "fused", would it have to be actual fuses rather than breakers to avoid a 110.3(B) violation?

No way I would put a 380W appliance like that on a "separate" circuit. "Separate" and "dedicated" =/= "individual". If the mfg wants it protected like that, it should have a (pair of) 5A fuse(s) on the front with a screw-on cap/holder.
 
Sierrasparky said:
Found this in the installation instructions on a kitchen fan.

"A 120-Volt, 60 Hz, AC-only (USA & Canada standard), fused electrical supply is required on a separate 15-amp circuit, fused on both sides of the line."

Fused on both sides of the line? WOW what are they thinking.
This device is only 380 watts.
Click to expand...

JFletcher said:
Does that mean OCPD on the branch circuit and an internal fuse, or that they want the ungrounded and grounded conductors both fused? If the latter, is that possibly an extremely poor description of using a GFCI breaker, or that any disconnect means must also break the neutral... or that the supply simply must have an OCPD?

Also, with the word "fused", would it have to be actual fuses rather than breakers to avoid a 110.3(B) violation?

No way I would put a 380W appliance like that on a "separate" circuit. "Separate" and "dedicated" =/= "individual". If the mfg wants it protected like that, it should have a (pair of) 5A fuse(s) on the front with a screw-on cap/holder.
Click to expand...

AFAIK, the phrase "Fused on both sides of the line" from appliance (think ranges for ex.) installation instructions means that both hots on a 240v circuit be "fused" (they will often mention a ckt breaker, time del fuse etc as recommended options), and iirc the instructions w/ that phrase usually do mention that the neutral is not to be fused- pretty much giving away what they mean.

Why the phrase would be included w/the ops product, who knows. :)
 
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FWIW, if it is not a US NRTL listed product, you do not have to follow the manufacturer's instructions.
 
I find that some manufacturer's instructions use the word fuse instead of the more appropriate term overcurrent protective device.
 
If one were to fuse (not use a breaker.... fuse) the grounded conductor of a 120v circuit, how does one do that and comply with 240.22?
 
I think the problem is most likely translation or use of proper terminology issues. If instructions are a part of a listing then you would think someone would evaluate those instructions before giving a listing.

Maybe the item isn't listed.
 
kwired said:
I think the problem is most likely translation or use of proper terminology issues. If instructions are a part of a listing then you would think someone would evaluate those instructions before giving a listing.
Click to expand...

"you would think someone would evaluate those instructions before giving a listing":rotflmao:
 
480sparky said:
If one were to fuse (not use a breaker.... fuse) the grounded conductor of a 120v circuit, how does one do that and comply with 240.22?
Click to expand...

Exactly- the NEC has not allowed the grounded conductor to be "fused" for many, many cycles- that would not be recommended by any reputable manufacturer, unless of course......

Smart $ said:
the item is not listed or labeled.
Click to expand...

.....and from a low end manufacturer with no knowledge of the NEC- which is possible.

kwired said:
I think the problem is most likely translation or use of proper terminology issues. If instructions are a part of a listing then you would think someone would evaluate those instructions before giving a listing.
Click to expand...

I think the most likely exp. is that whoever makes the fan also manufactures 240v equipment (like I said before the phrase "fused on both sides of the line" is often included with ranges/ dryers installation instructions - they want both hot-or LINE-legs covered by an ocpd-they are NOT referencing the neutral. ) and the phrase was erroneously included w/ the ops product- probably folks at the plant Shanghai weren't paying attention.:D
 
240V in the 50 hertz world is a line to neutral load, just like 120V here, we could fill pages of a thread on strange translations from Chinese to English in the included manuals/ instructions included w/ products.


Not electrical but quite humorous, be warned there is profanity in some of the posts. http://www.engrish.com/
 
norcal said:
240V in the 50 hertz world is a line to neutral load, just like 120V here, we could fill pages of a thread on strange translations from Chinese to English in the included manuals/ instructions included w/ products.
Click to expand...

But do they ordinarily put fuses in both conductors? That part would be the same.
 
110.3(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instruc-
tions included in the listing or labeling.
Click to expand...

It's interesting that most may consider 'manufacturers instructions' that which either comes in paper form with the product, is available on line , and/or tech support.

Yet in re-reading this , it would seem manufacturers are constrained to the limits of a listing or labeling.

So what and who i believe when on the tech line to parts of the globe i can't pronounce is somewhat a concern here....

~RJ~
 
romex jockey said:
It's interesting that most may consider 'manufacturers instructions' that which either comes in paper form with the product, is available on line , and/or tech support.

Yet in re-reading this , it would seem manufacturers are constrained to the limits of a listing or labeling.

So what and who i believe when on the tech line to parts of the globe i can't pronounce is somewhat a concern here....

~RJ~
Click to expand...
Sort of the point I was trying to make earlier, if a listing agency is going to test a product an give it their label, and if instructions are a part of that listing, shouldn't poorly written or incorrect instructions fail the testing?
 
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