Manufactured Home plus Shop

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MD84

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Stow, Ohio, USA
I have a customer that is building a shop at his home. The home is a manufactured house and the service drop is to a pole about 40' from the home. The service is about 10' from the shop. They utility is scheduled to update to a 200A service. Currently there is a 100A disconnect at the meter with 3 wire underground to the house.

What are my options for powering the shop with 100A? Originally I told the customer we would need to run a 4 wire feeder from the house.

Are there any options in this scenario to leave the 3 wire going to the house and power the shop from a disconnect off the meter?

I think I know the answer here but I would like to check and see if there is something I am missing possibly since this is a manufactured home or otherwise.
 
MD84 said:
Originally I told the customer we would need to run a 4 wire feeder from the house.
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This is the way I would normally do it.

MD84 said:
Are there any options in this scenario to leave the 3 wire going to the house and power the shop from a disconnect off the meter?
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I'm not an expert on this subject, but I have wired a duplex where both halves were running off the same meter. The meter went to a trough where the feeder was tapped to two disconnects, one to each residence. From there to two separate panels. Passed inspection. Sounds like your situation.
 
Sounds like the 1st step might be a chat with your inspector due to existing violations.

MD84 said:
I have a customer that is building a shop at his home. The home is a manufactured house and the service drop is to a pole about 40' from the home (violation 550.32). The service is about 10' from the shop. They utility is scheduled to update to a 200A service. Currently there is a 100A disconnect at the meter with 3 wire underground to the house.(violation 550.33)
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MD84 said:
What are my options for powering the shop with 100A? Originally I told the customer we would need to run a 4 wire feeder from the house.

Are there any options in this scenario to leave the 3 wire going to the house and power the shop from a disconnect off the meter?

I think I know the answer here but I would like to check and see if there is something I am missing possibly since this is a manufactured home or otherwise.
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I would lean toward feeding the shop from the updated service likely with a 200 amp panel and 100 amp feeders to both structures although there are other options.
 
I am assuming the meter and service disconnect are on the pole you mentioned.

How old is the home, the three wire feeder may have been allowed at the time the home was put there, if so there shouldn't be any issue with letting it remain a three wire feeder. The shop will need a four wire feeder regardless, unless you can eliminate the disconnect - then you have service conductors to both the house and the shop.
 
augie47 said:
Sounds like the 1st step might be a chat with your inspector due to existing violations.
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I'm not sure there is a violation and it would depend on the type of manufactured home and time of installation. But from what I have seen each jurisdiction as their own ideas of what will be acceptable with a manufactured home.

I to would check with the inspectors before doing anything.

If you go back to the 1999 code and read 550.23 (B) it's a lot different than the new 550.32 (B).
 
Wondering - If you have a home that is mostly built off site , loaded on a flatbed truck and assembled on site and on a regular foundation does it fall under article 550.
I don't believe so.

what do you folks say?
 
Sierrasparky said:
Wondering - If you have a home that is mostly built off site , loaded on a flatbed truck and assembled on site and on a regular foundation does it fall under article 550.
I don't believe so.

what do you folks say?
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The criteria for a manufactured home is stated at the front of article 550. I don't think what you are talking about meets this criteria. It wouldn't have a permanent chassis that would allowed it to be used without foundation. If it's not a manufactured or mobile home then it wouldn't be covered.

Just an opinion folks.
 
Sierrasparky said:
Wondering - If you have a home that is mostly built off site , loaded on a flatbed truck and assembled on site and on a regular foundation does it fall under article 550.
I don't believe so.

what do you folks say?
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growler said:
The criteria for a manufactured home is stated at the front of article 550. I don't think what you are talking about meets this criteria. It wouldn't have a permanent chassis that would allowed it to be used without foundation. If it's not a manufactured or mobile home then it wouldn't be covered.

Just an opinion folks.
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Thanks ,
So do we call these modular homes then?


Or?
 
kwired said:
How they get inspected is an AHJ issue and not an NEC issue.
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I ran into an issue with modular buildings years ago. There was a compay that had a lot of old modular building ( never installed but not up to current code) and so they donated them to a church. The church had them assembled to form a small school and day care ( about 6K-8K sq ft).

Now that this place is a school, day care and sometimes used for church function with over a 100 people just what is going to happen to all that Romex wiring?

I took the set of plans and headed for the building department. They were not even sure the correct permits and inspections had been performed and we never got to the electrical issues.

I walked (ran) away. They had already told me they didn't have any money for anything other than a power connect. Build a service and supply feeders to existing panels.

I have no idea what they finally did with the structure. The GC come back with a heck of an estimate just to get the roof system in order. I don't think they even had the money for that.
 
jumper said:
Aren't the bus stabs on such panels/load centers limited to 100 or 125A?
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Yes the stabs may be limited to 125. You can get breakers that are either quad full size or clip on to both left and right stabs.

I am sure some panels have limitations.
If that were the case you would not be able to purchase those.
 
petersonra said:
churches are famous for code violations. even ones that have a lot of money and can afford to do things right.
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I worked on a pastor's house that had some issues. It had been rewired with volunteer church labor. They must not have liked him because that place was a deathtrap. The code violations were too numerous to recount here. (And apparently no permit or inspection.)
 
jumper said:
Aren't the bus stabs on such panels/load centers limited to 100 or 125A?
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He proposed to use 100 amp breakers - so that shouldn't present any problems.

Another possible configuration is to go with a 200 amp disconnect or meter/main (no branch circuit spaces), and tie both structures in as feeder taps - you need disconnecting means at each structure either way, and outdoor feeder taps have no length or size limitations.
 
kwired said:
He proposed to use 100 amp breakers - so that shouldn't present any problems.

Another possible configuration is to go with a 200 amp disconnect or meter/main (no branch circuit spaces), and tie both structures in as feeder taps - you need disconnecting means at each structure either way, and outdoor feeder taps have no length or size limitations.
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Thanks to everyone for the discussion and feedback. I will propose the 200A disc with feeder taps. It seems the most economical. I will compare it to two 100A. There is some extra reliability with the latter should an underground fault occur on one feeder.

I do not think there are currently any violations but we will see what the ahj thinks.
 
I think this will be a stupid question, and I'm rusty on this subject, please bear with me, but if the shop subpanel will require an isolated neutral, how can you do that from the disconnect mounted on the pole, since it is fed directly from the meter?
 
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