Manufacturers Instructions

Merry Christmas
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Could somebody please point me to where the code requires manufacturers instructions be followed? Part of a printing press needs a drive motor replaced. Does it violate the code to install the replacement drive different from what the drive motor instructions require? I assume the answer is yes but I'm trying to find it in the code.
 
Re: Manufacturers Instructions

Thanks for the response. I see where this requirement is for listed or labeled equipment. This is probably a stupid question but are drive motors either listed or labeled? I'm thinking if the drive motor is not listed or labeled the code section would not apply??
 
Re: Manufacturers Instructions

If the drive motor is simply part of the printing press assembly, then the NEC is not involved. It might void any applicable warranty though.
 
Re: Manufacturers Instructions

mkgrady, have you thought of this. You are repairing and not installing a piece of equipment and the NEC does not cover this. You still don't want any safety violations, or to void the warranty but it's not a code issue. This is more of an engineering problem. Will it work properly and safely ?
 
Re: Manufacturers Instructions

I can see where the press manufacturer would not have to follow the NEC, but why do you say the motor replacement does not fall under NEC. That would mean un unlicensed electrician could replace a motor if it is part of a machine?
 
Re: Manufacturers Instructions

Mkgrady, I believe the NEC has no say in what type of motor you use but, it does have a say in how to properly wire it up and make it safe in the matter that it's safe for everyone.
Bye now,jIM
 
Re: Manufacturers Instructions

The printing press is probably covered in detail in NFPA 670 for Industrial Machinery, not the NFPA 70 NEC document. The issue is that if the press is subject to an inspection by your local jurisdiction, it either has a UL or third party sticker on it. At which point, yes the 2005 code expects 'factory authorized' repairs - meaning, the person who fixes it was approved by the machine builder. The 2002 NEC has no such restriction. Smaller manufacturers generally do not bother with 'legal, official' training and such and not a biggie there. Even GM knows that they can't skirt emissions warranties when customers change their own air filters.
If your local building department requires inspection, then replacing the motor will take one of two things. Either your new motor is in the manufacturer's documentation as one of the acceptable replacements, or it isn't. In one case you just fix the machine, in the other whomever issued the sticker will need to be informed and possibly want to see your little crossed out notation in the bill of materials or schematic or assembly drawing, wherever the original is specified. Most of the time, third party inspectors will work with you and a phone call will handle it. If it has a UL sticker, those guys generally want to charge $1000 for a field trip to (quite literally) make a note. By all means call or stop by your building department to bounce it off an inspector who likely has fixed machines in the area before; one of their legal responsibilities is to answer questions, meaning they cannot 'bust' you or ask loaded questions back. The UL listing is an issue in case they move or sell the machine, much less frequently in case there's a fire or injury. Best not to make it your issue.
The other possiblity is that we're talking about a machine without a sticker, no electrical drawings in a folder, something which the company has taken full responsibility for. In which case you're still acting as an independent contractor - are you on the company payroll? The company and their local jurisdiction and their insurance coverage is their business. Just fix it, write on your invoice exactly what you did and "30 day warranty," don't leave any spare business cards on your way out, and smile.
 
Re: Manufacturers Instructions

Peteo, if you don't mind, see if you find this easier to read:


The printing press is probably covered in detail in NFPA 670 for Industrial Machinery, not the NFPA 70 NEC document.

The issue is that if the press is subject to an inspection by your local jurisdiction, it either has a UL or third party sticker on it. At which point, yes the 2005 code expects 'factory authorized' repairs - meaning, the person who fixes it was approved by the machine builder.

The 2002 NEC has no such restriction. Smaller manufacturers generally do not bother with 'legal, official' training and such and not a biggie there. Even GM knows that they can't skirt emissions warranties when customers change their own air filters.

If your local building department requires inspection, then replacing the motor will take one of two things. Either your new motor is in the manufacturer's documentation as one of the acceptable replacements, or it isn't.

In one case you just fix the machine, in the other whomever issued the sticker will need to be informed and possibly want to see your little crossed out notation in the bill of materials or schematic or assembly drawing, wherever the original is specified.

Most of the time, third party inspectors will work with you and a phone call will handle it. If it has a UL sticker, those guys generally want to charge $1000 for a field trip to (quite literally) make a note.

By all means call or stop by your building department to bounce it off an inspector who likely has fixed machines in the area before; one of their legal responsibilities is to answer questions, meaning they cannot 'bust' you or ask loaded questions back.

The UL listing is an issue in case they move or sell the machine, much less frequently in case there's a fire or injury. Best not to make it your issue.

The other possiblity is that we're talking about a machine without a sticker, no electrical drawings in a folder, something which the company has taken full responsibility for. In which case you're still acting as an independent contractor - are you on the company payroll?

The company and their local jurisdiction and their insurance coverage is their business. Just fix it, write on your invoice exactly what you did and "30 day warranty," don't leave any spare business cards on your way out, and smile.
 
Re: Manufacturers Instructions

I don't agree that 110.3(B) requires that the manufacturer's instructions be followed, and I will not change my position on this issue as long as UL classifies breakers for use in panels made by other manufacturers. 110.3(B) requires compliance with instructions that are part of the "listing and labeling". Any other instructions are manufacturer's instructions or recommendations and 110.3(B) does not require compliance with these.
Yes, I know that UL has published statements to the contrary. To UL, I say, you can't have it both ways. As long as you have classified breakers you are telling us that it is not necessary to comply with manufacturer's instructions.
Don
 
Re: Manufacturers Instructions

Taking the zero-intelligence logic further.

If I have a generator that came filled with XYZ brand motor oil, is it a violation of the listing instructions to use a different brand? How about changing the brand of ballast in a lighting fixture?
 
Re: Manufacturers Instructions

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19: 110.3(B) requires compliance with instructions that are part of the "listing and labeling". Any other instructions are manufacturer's instructions or recommendations and 110.3(B) does not require compliance with these.
Click to expand...
I see it the same way.
 
Re: Manufacturers Instructions

I agree with Don and Charlie.

Going even further; I don't have much experience with printing presses, but I doubt that any of them have any kind of labeling. Very few specialty machine builders have any kind of labeling other than most of their electrical components carry a UL label (though not necessarily for the application for which they are being used.
 
Re: Manufacturers Instructions

Motors are not listed, except for those used in specific applications such as gasoline dispensors.
Motors are standard between mfgs and this is designated by the frame size. You'll need to match the new motor to the old via the nameplate data.
 
Re: Manufacturers Instructions

Thank you all for the replys. This board is so educational (and fun). Now my follow up question:
When instructions come with any electrical part, how do I know if the instructions are part of the listing or labeling? (let's assume the part has a listing or labeling). The replys seem to indicate that if the instructions are part of the listing or labeling 110.3(B) requires they be followed. Then I assume if the instructions are not part of the listing or labeling NEC doesn't require I follow the instructions? How does this make sense? Is it that the instructions should still be followed but NEC and local inspectors have no jurisdiction?
 
Re: Manufacturers Instructions

I once wired a machine for the largest lighting fixture conglomerate in the world! The machine required a special transformer that had to be made. This company can make any size or voltage transformer you want! When I got it I couldn't find the UL label. I pointed this out to my customer who was in charge of the R&D dept. He said if I knew what really went on behind UL listing, I would be surprised!
 
Re: Manufacturers Instructions

Originally posted by mkgrady:
When instructions come with any electrical part, how do I know if the instructions are part of the listing or labeling? (let's assume the part has a listing or labeling).
Click to expand...
You don't know without further investigation. Two people gave you an opinion based on their recognition of a conflict in UL's practices.

If you take what Don and Charlie believe to the extreme, you can ignore stuff such as max lamp wattage or wire combinations for connectors.

Be careful how far you take this. Many jurisdictions will consider the instructions part of the listing. "Instructions" include everthing from wire range on a terminal to a pamphlet furnished with a luminaire.

Here's a link to the Luminaire Marking Guide.
There are examples of instructions for installation that will be included in the listing.

The conflict that Don ( which is indeed valid ) points out should be limited to just the circuit breaker issue and not be taken to mean that UL is completely off base with regards to all instructions for all products.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top