marina feeder cables

[MartyLewis]

I have a question concerning section 555 of the code book. We are currently working with a Marina in WV that has type w cables coming from service disconnects located about 40 feet above the ground. The feeder cables come down the pole and continue across the floor of the lake out to the floating marina where it enters a breaker panel and then branch circuits continue to the docks. The local state certified inspector interprets the feeder cables as being portable power cables and thinks that they should be suspended under the floating docks all the way to the marina. I questioned him on the term of portable power cables or are they permanent feeder cables. The cables have been there for years and are covered with silt, debris, wood, and rocks. It would be impossible to lift these cables off of the bottom even with a floating crane. I am looking for another opinion as to the interpretation as to whether these cables need to be suspended under the dock or if they are all right as is on the bottom of the lake. Keep in mind that if they are suspended under the dock and a large storm or houseboat collision occurred they could actually pull the feeder cables and damage the service.

 

[texie]

I have a question concerning section 555 of the code book. We are currently working with a Marina in WV that has type w cables coming from service disconnects located about 40 feet above the ground. The feeder cables come down the pole and continue across the floor of the lake out to the floating marina where it enters a breaker panel and then branch circuits continue to the docks. The local state certified inspector interprets the feeder cables as being portable power cables and thinks that they should be suspended under the floating docks all the way to the marina. I questioned him on the term of portable power cables or are they permanent feeder cables. The cables have been there for years and are covered with silt, debris, wood, and rocks. It would be impossible to lift these cables off of the bottom even with a floating crane. I am looking for another opinion as to the interpretation as to whether these cables need to be suspended under the dock or if they are all right as is on the bottom of the lake. Keep in mind that if they are suspended under the dock and a large storm or houseboat collision occurred they could actually pull the feeder cables and damage the service.

The term "portable power cable" is a type W cable. Yes, this can be used as permanent feeder cable per 555.13(A)(2). As far as being submerged on the bottom as opposed to attached to the underside of the dock, I don't see anything to prohibit this. I would think that they need to be protected 555.13(B)(5) where they could be damaged such as where they emerge on shore.

 

[augie47]

Unless it has changed from '08, 555.13(B)(4) seems to support the inspectors concerns.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

(4) Portable Power Cables.
(a) Where portable power cables are permitted by 555.13(A)(2), the installation shall comply with the following:
(1) Cables shall be properly supported.
(2) Cables shall be located on the underside of the pier.
(3) Cables shall be securely fastened by nonmetallic clips to structural members other than the deck planking.
(4) Cables shall not be installed where subject to physical damage.
(5) Where cables pass through structural members, they shall be protected against chafing by a permanently installed oversized sleeve of nonmetallic material.

 

[MartyLewis]

marina feeder cables

Don,

My feeling is that the feeder cables are not portable. They are permanently attached to the disconnects and to the breaker panel at the marina. If they can not be picked up and moved, how can they be classified as portable. In addition our concern is that if they are attached to the dock and the dock is moved, whether through and accident or if it has to be moved due to weather and lake level conditions, then the feeders are more liable to be damaged.

 

[texie]

(4) Portable Power Cables.
(a) Where portable power cables are permitted by 555.13(A)(2), the installation shall comply with the following:
(1) Cables shall be properly supported.
(2) Cables shall be located on the underside of the pier.
(3) Cables shall be securely fastened by nonmetallic clips to structural members other than the deck planking.
(4) Cables shall not be installed where subject to physical damage.
(5) Where cables pass through structural members, they shall be protected against chafing by a permanently installed oversized sleeve of nonmetallic material.

I am under the impression that the floating dock is not contiguous to shore, IE an island, and hence no dock to support them from. Maybe I misunderstood the OP.

 

[MartyLewis]

marina feeder cables

the dock continues to the shoreline but it is moveable. The first section from the shore to the first floating portion is sitting on the shore and it rests on the first floating platform. The rest of the dock, residence, marina, and piers are all floating.

 

[fmtjfw]

Are you really using type W Cable? It appears to be rated for 2kV.
Is the voltage in excess of 1kV? If so forbidden by 555.4.
Is this feeder protected by a 100mA (or less) Ground-Fault for Equipment breaker?

The NEC in itself is not retroactive. But the requirements to pass inspection per HB3020 (WV ?20-9) The Michael Cunningham Act, require the inspection to be based on NEC 70-2011 and NFPA 303-2006? It not clear to me that any installation not up to the currently adopted code will pass inspection.

555.13 Wiring Methods and Installation.
(A) Wiring Methods.
(A)(1) General.
Wiring methods of Chapter 3 shall be permitted where identified for use in wet locations.

>>> Use of type W cables is not a Chapter 3 wiring method under 2011/2014

(A)(2) Portable Power Cables.
Extra-hard usage portable power cables rated not less than 167?F (75?C), 600 volts; listed for both wet locations and sunlight resistance; and having an outer jacket rated to be resistant to temperature extremes, oil, gasoline, ozone, abrasion, acids, and chemicals shall be permitted as follows:

>>> To use type W cable you have to follow the rules in 555.

(A)(2)(1) As permanent wiring on the underside of piers (floating or fixed)

>>>This is probably the requirement that the inspector is relying on.
>>>The doesn't appear to be any "lake bottom burial" in 555.

(A)(2)(2) Where flexibility is necessary as on piers composed of floating sections

(B) Installation.

(B)(1) Overhead Wiring. NOT overhead

(B)(2) Outside Branch Circuits and Feeders
Outside branch circuits and feeders shall comply with Article 225 except that clearances for overhead wiring in portions of the yard other than those described in 555.13(B)(1) shall not be less than 5.49 m (18 ft) abovegrade.

>>>225 references to multiconductor cable
>>>225.10, 225.21 multiconductor cable on buildings
>>>225.18, 225.19 NOT overhead

(B)(3) Wiring Over and Under Navigable Water.
Wiring over and under navigable water shall be subject to approval by the authority having jurisdiction.

>>>Is the inspector the AHJ or is the State Fire Marshal?
>>>Is it navigable and under Corps of Engineers?

(B)(4) Portable Power Cables.

(a) Where portable power cables are permitted by 555.13(A)(2), the installation shall comply with the following:

(B)(4)(a)(1) Cables shall be properly supported.

>>>This is probably the requirement that the inspector is relying on.

(B)(4)(a)(2) Cables shall be located on the underside of the pier.

>>>This is probably the requirement that the inspector is relying on.

(B)(4)(a)(3) Cables shall be securely fastened by nonmetallic clips to structural members other than the deck planking.

>>>This is probably the requirement that the inspector is relying on.

(B)(4)(a)(4) Cables shall not be installed where subject to physical damage.

>>>"The cables have been there for years and are covered with silt, debris, wood, and rocks."
>>>Could the inspector consider this being violated?

(B)(4)(a)(5) Where cables pass through structural members, they shall be protected against chafing by a permanently installed oversized sleeve of nonmetallic material.

....

 

[MartyLewis]

marina feeder cables

Don,

Thanks for your input. The type w cables are already existing. We are attempting to bring the marina up to the new Cunningham law that you referenced. However, I feel for the owners. They purchased the marina not long ago and now are being hit with this expense. I will discuss with the inspector. The State Fire Marshall has deferred authority to the inspectors to make the ultimate decisions on what complies and what doesn't. I know the inspector fairly well and we will work together on this. Again, thank you for your input.

 

[texie]

the dock continues to the shoreline but it is moveable. The first section from the shore to the first floating portion is sitting on the shore and it rests on the first floating platform. The rest of the dock, residence, marina, and piers are all floating.

So you do have a contiguous path...maybe the others are right, it does not meet the letter of the code. As a practical matter I think type W is better than most any Chapter 3 wiring method. It is very tough stuff. I guess my question would be if for sake of argument, if you had no contiguous path, what would be a compliant method?

Back when I did a fair number of docks we used to have a similar issue arise with 4 post boat lifts where the outboard set of post and motor was not contiguous with the dock-it was an island. We would use PVC weighted with a piece of oversized GRC on the horizontal portion (to hold down until silt would cover in time) under water to reach them for the motor conductors.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Don,

My feeling is that the feeder cables are not portable. They are permanently attached to the disconnects and to the breaker panel at the marina. If they can not be picked up and moved, how can they be classified as portable. In addition our concern is that if they are attached to the dock and the dock is moved, whether through and accident or if it has to be moved due to weather and lake level conditions, then the feeders are more liable to be damaged.

The word "portable" is just part of the name of the type of cable. It does not restrict the use to things that are portable. The rules in 555 specifically permit the use of this type of cable.

555.13(A) Wiring Methods.
(1) General. Wiring methods of Chapter 3 shall be permitted where identified for use in wet locations.
(2 ) Portable Power Cables. Extra-hard usage portable power cab les rated not less than 167?F (75?C), 600 volts; listed for
both wet locations and sunlight resistance; and having an outer jacket rated to be resistant to temperature extremes, oil, gasoline,
ozone, abrasion, acids, and chemicals shall be permitted as follows:
(1) As permanent wiring on the underside of piers (floating or fixed)
(2) Where flexibility is necessary as on piers composed of floating sections

If you don't want to use portable power cable you can use any Chapter 3 wiring method that is suitable for wet locations.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Are you really using type W Cable? It appears to be rated for 2kV. ....

I think most of the portable power cables have a 1 or 2kV voltage rating.
A quick check of the 3 types of "portable power cable" listed in Table 400.4 shows they all are available with a 2kV insulation. The three types are "G", "PPE" and "W". Maybe they are also made with a 600 volt insulation, but the first few links I found for all three types had the 2kV rating.

 

[fmtjfw]

I think most of the portable power cables have a 1 or 2kV voltage rating.
A quick check of the 3 types of "portable power cable" listed in Table 400.4 shows they all are available with a 2kV insulation. The three types are "G", "PPE" and "W". Maybe they are also made with a 600 volt insulation, but the first few links I found for all three types had the 2kV rating.

Yea, mining cable -- definitely tough stuff. Just hope this was bought new and not taken after being used in a mine. It looks like it is finely stranded and would require connectors rated for fine stranding rather than run-of-mill crimps or bolted lugs.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Yea, mining cable -- definitely tough stuff. Just hope this was bought new and not taken after being used in a mine. It looks like it is finely stranded and would require connectors rated for fine stranding rather than run-of-mill crimps or bolted lugs.

Yes, it would be finely stranded and require care in the selections of the termination devices.

A lot of the mining cable is type "GC", a version of type G with a second smaller EGC that is used for the MSHA required yearly check of the actual EGC.

Also the last type G I used had "odd" sized EGCs...that is sizes like 5, 7 and 9 AWG.