Masonary Posts - Wiring Method??

Status
Not open for further replies.
busman

busman

Senior Member
Location
Northern Virginia
Occupation
Master Electrician / Electrical Engineer
Is there any code that covers the wiring method inside a masorary post with a light on top? From a practical point-of-view, the cable/conduit has to end below the light and have open conductors inside the column to attach the light. Metal post lights are similar, but at least they are UL listed. It doesn't seem to be a safety issue; but I just can't see where the code covers this.

Thanks for any help.

Mark
 
busman said:
Bryan,

I was asking about field constructed masonary posts.

Thanks,

Mark
Click to expand...
Most of the answer is going to depend on the design and listing of the light fixture. For example, is a junction box required to provide for a splicing volume, or is the splicing volume provided for in the fixture itself and the conduit can be connected to the fixture, or perhaps is it a direct wire to lamp base...???
 
I guess I was asking because I don't do new construction so I have never had to install one, but I have NEVER seen a box on the ones I have serviced. Just an open cavity with a cable/conduit and a light on top capping the opening. Some of the lights are mounted to a base that has a "post light" metal pole about 3" tall, but I have never seen a box.

Mark
 
busman said:
but I have NEVER seen a box on the ones I have serviced. Just an open cavity with a cable/conduit and a light on top capping the opening.
Click to expand...

Yeah I just did a service call Saturday for one like that. It had gotten knocked over by a truck.

I agree you rarely see boxes, I still believe the NEC requires one.

300.15 is the place to look and I do not see an exception for masonry poles.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Bob. Any ideas on the good way to mount a box? I have one coming up in the next few weeks (hence the question). The masonry is done and the inside cavity is about 8"x8" square all the way to the bottom. I will get pics if someone can tell me how to post them.

Thanks,

Mark
 
iwire said:
I agree you rarely see boxes, I still believe the NEC requires one.

300.15 is the place to look and I do not see an exception for masonry poles.
Click to expand...
True. I guess that the reason we allow the splice must be because of the design of the listed fixture. 410.10 says there needs to be adequate wiring space in the canopy, and the fixture is designed to mount on top of a post. Anyway, I've never seen a box under any type of post mounted fixture.
 
rlMutch said:
I guess that the reason we allow the splice must be because of the design of the listed fixture. 410.10 says there needs to be adequate wiring space in the canopy, and the fixture is designed to mount on top of a post.
Click to expand...

Rod I do not see any mention of posts in 410.10
 
iwire said:
Rod I do not see any mention of posts in 410.10
Click to expand...
I was referring to the wiring space inside the fixture canopy, not the post. Also, 410.15(B)(1) kind of addresses splicing at the top of a post (and inside the handhole).
 
How about 410.15(B) Exceptions #1? If the OP puts the Base w/post and Luminaire no box/handhole needed. I've seen the base and luminaire installed many times atop a masonry post/column.

Tom


2005NEC

Edited : Beat by a second....
 
First let me say I do not see a real safety issue with a splice surrounded by masonry and the fixture. :smile:

That said I do not believe that a masonry pillar falls under 410.15

The masonry is done and the inside cavity is about 8"x8" square all the way to the bottom.
Click to expand...

This suggests a 14" to 16" square masonry pillar.

Would you call that a 'non-metallic pole'?
 
Bob, youv'e got the right idea about the construction. Is that a post, or not? I have no idea for sure. I guess a call to the AHJ is in order. Other opinions?

Thanks for the good reference.

Mark
 
I wouldn't allow a splice inside a masonry pillar, or any other structure for that matter. The fixture has to be installed according to the manufacturers instructions, which usually specify mounting it on a certain size post, or pedestal that would be mounted on top of the masonry structure. See busman's link in post 7.
 
rlMutch said:
The fixture has to be installed according to the manufacturers instructions, which usually specify mounting it on a certain size post, or pedestal that would be mounted on top of the masonry structure.
Click to expand...

What is the proper way to transition from cable or raceway to the 'post or pedestal'?
 
iwire said:
What is the proper way to transition from cable or raceway to the 'post or pedestal'?
Click to expand...
Follow the manufacturer's instructions. Here's what the white book says about how they evaluate these fittings.
"Smoothness and thickness of wireways, methods for connection to a recognized wiring system, suitability of splice enclosure and means for inspecting splices are typical considerations given to the completed luminaire which cannot be judged until the fittings are assembled into a complete luminaire."
Here's the link:
http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...n=versionless&parent_id=1073988187&sequence=1
 
busman said:
Thanks Bob. Any ideas on the good way to mount a box? I have one coming up in the next few weeks (hence the question). The masonry is done and the inside cavity is about 8"x8" square all the way to the bottom. I will get pics if someone can tell me how to post them.

Thanks,

Mark
Click to expand...

Couldn`t you just drop some UF though the open center and terminate in either a hand hole nearby or a bell box mounted on the bottom sleeving the switch leg/ power and the UF in PVC,A bell box would be the ticket if there is to be a photo cell for control.
 
rlMutch said:
Follow the manufacturer's instructions.
Click to expand...

Kind of disappointing answer.

I doubt the instructions will tell us how to support the UF or raceway to the post or pedestal you mentioned.

FWIW I have the white book.


"Smoothness and thickness of wireways, methods for connection to a recognized wiring system, suitability of splice enclosure and means for inspecting splices are typical considerations given to the completed luminaire which cannot be judged until the fittings are assembled into a complete luminaire."
Click to expand...

I don't see how that helps answer the question.

All that says is when we see it we can decide.

So I ask you, if you where installing a small pole or pedestal on top of this masonry structure how would you transition from the cable or raceway to the pole?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top