Master/Journeyman/Contractor

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jemsvcs

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Could someone explain the difference in the licensing classifications around the country?

I have always worked for non-union contractors and recently took the contractors exam in the State of Ohio, which is the National Master Electrician's Exam. Now...I am familiar with the different classifications within a union shop, but having taken the Ohio exam does that imply that I would be a licensed master electrician?

I often see different posts on here where people speak of 'licensed master electricians' and 'licensed contractors' as if they are two entirely different things. Or is this just a union thing?

Thanks,

Jemsvcs
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

Any title containing the word "Electrician" is a person with the skills of an electrician.

Any title containing the word "Contractor" is a person who hires electricians.

The same individual may, or may not, perform the same functions.
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

In Massachusetts a "Master electrician" can operate an electrical contracting business hiring journeyman electricians and an apprentice for each journeyman or master. Journeyman may also operate an electrical business, however he/she may only hire an apprentice and not other licensed electricians. Both master and journeyman electricians are licensed by the state.
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

In Washington State, a ?Master Electrician License? is a combination license that incorporates the ?Journeyman? and ?Electrical Administrator? into a single license. If you have earned both individual licenses, you can keep them both active. But that would cost you two separate fees, and they might be renewable at different times. So the combination license just simplifies matters and saves you money. Obtaining a ?Journeyman License? requires (in general) four years of documented work experience and passing an exam.

An ?Electrical Administrator? is the person in any given company who is responsible for assuring code compliance and safe work practices. Each electrical contracting company must assign one, and only one, person to that role, even if several persons in the company have the Electrical Administrator?s license. I have that license, even though I have never worked as an electrician (I?m an engineer). It requires passing a multi-part exam on such topics as the NEC, calculations, safety, and state administrative rules related to licensing (e.g., renewals, continuing education, disciplinary hearings, limits on who can work in what area with what type of license, etc.).
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

In Florida, there is no Journeyman at the state level. A journeyman license can be pursued and achieved at the local level, but does not allow the holder to perform their own work. It's simply for person achievment and employment credibility.

There really isn't a Master at the state level either. If a person wants to perform work on their own, they can take a local exam and obtain a "Master" license, they can then register with the state to perform work as a contractor only in the jurisdiction the Master was administered. This option is slowly but surely being phased out.

The other option is to take a state exam and obtain a state certified license which allows you to perform work as a contractor pretty much anywhere in the state. :)
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

(Long Island, NY) - There are not separate Electrician/Contractor Licenses, the only classification is Master Electrician. This has no voltage or $$ limitations. Recently though I believe there is a separate License/Registration fee required to do Fire Alarm work.

There are also Restricted Electrical Licenses that permit Plumbers and HVAC Mechanics to work on the wiring within their specific equipment.

Bill

P.S. - There is no State License at this time, we're licensed at County or Town level where I am.

[ April 25, 2004, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: bill addiss ]
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

Bill
That is interesting, in Westchester, we have special licenses for people who may work in an industrial plant. The test is not as hard as a contractor test. HVAC and Plumbers still would have to take the contractors test or hire an electrician - which makes them real mad. There have been some stiff fines lately for HVAC contractors who are caught doing their own electrical work.

Pierre
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

All Construction and Maintainece Electrician's in Oregon must be licensed, without exception. In Oregon we have General Journeyman Electrician and General Supervising Electrician. A General Journeyman license requires 4 years experience AND completion of an approved apprenticeship program. A Journeyman cannot be a contractor. To obtain a General supervising Electrician you must be a Journeyman Electrician for at least 4 years and have experience in lay-out and design. A General Supervising Electrician can design ANY electrical system without limitation in Oregon.
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

In michigan after 4 yrs and 8000 hours and pass a test you are ajourneyman. After 2 yrs and 4000 more hours and passing a test=master. Electrical contractor is another test, mostly on business law. I have all of them :) :) :)
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

Explorer, nice to finally see some info in regards to liscensing in Oregon. :) But you seem to seperate it into either Construction or Maintenace...my question is...one Journeyman's or Supervisor's liscense allows you to do both Maintenance and Construction, right? Construction includes both commercial and resedential, right?

I don't see the problem with a plumber or HVAC contractor doing wiring to connect a furnace, a/c disposal, etc...as long as it's all roughed in and the connection is the only thing that needs to be done. I wonder why people have problems with that. I was reading something, and I'm not sure what state it's in...or if it's all states...but there was a special liscense for HVAC electrical...anyone heard of that? What is it?
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

In GA we have 2 classifications of electricians, class 1 and class 2. Class 1 is limited to 200 amps and below single phase, and class 2 is unlimited. You can run a company with either class, and you can work anywhere in the state with just buying 1 business license.
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

In Minnesota, we have statewide licensing, and local government units cannot require electricians to get any kind of local license. All licenses are valid everywhere in the state.

Here the two kinds of licenses that allow someone to do electrical work are the journeyman and the master. There are other types of licenses (e.g., maintenance, lineman, elevator, power-limited), but they are restricted as to what kind of work the holder can perform. Journeyman and master licenses are unrestricted; the only difference between the two is that technically, only a master can "plan" and "lay out" wiring.

Electrical work must be done for an electrical contractor, which requires its own separate statewide license. One requirement for a contractor's license is the exclusive employment of a master electrician. Thus, only a master electrician can be self-employed (he must also get a contractor's license). Additional contractor requirements are insurance, bonding, tax forms, etc. A contractor could be an individual, partnership, corporation, etc. A contractor license itself doesn't allow the holder to do electrical work; it's only a business license. A person who doesn't know a volt from an amp could become a contractor, but I doubt this happens much, if at all.

It takes four years of documented experience to qualify to sit for the journeyman exam. It takes a year of experience as a journeyman or five total years of experience to sit for the master exam. It's not necessary to first become a journeyman before becoming a master, but most people do because it's better to have a journeyman license than no license.
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

In the Northern Kentucky area there are now 3 tests given. Electrician, master electrician, and electrical contractor. Any contractor must employ at least 1 master, and any master cannot pull permits unless also licensed as a E.C. By the way, JEMSVCS, I'm interested in taking the Ohio contractor's exam, as I am located in Cincinnati, but in doing research for exam dates I saw that I would be required to take and pass the business law exam before I could work as a contractor. I could not find any info on this test, any links/suggestions?
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

iN nyc WHEN i LEFT THERE WAS A cONTRACTORS lICENSE, NO ELECTRICAL EXPERIENCE REQUIRED COULD HIRE AND OWN COMPANY BUT NOT ASSIGN DUTIES. That was the requirement of the Master Electrican. So most were owned by businessmen who had Masters running them. I know cause at that time the co I worked for was like that

In florida there is a Master Electrican license you can sit for the state in any county and get a state wide license.
There is also a Journey Mans License/permit you must have a masters in Dade-Broward-Palm Beach Counties to pul permits.
Most of the racket jobs light bulb changers in schools are manditory Journeymens License.

Happy Bird to all "SPARKIES"
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

Colorado is kinda weird. After two years documented residential experience you are eligible to test for a Residential Wireman License, good for up to 4-plexes. Two more years of commercial experience qualifies you to test for Journeyman, good for everything. Then you must hold your Journeyman for 1 year of layout/design experience, test for Master. The contractor requirements are similar, a registered electrical contractor must have a master electrician, and if that master disappears, contractor has twenty days to replace him or cease performing electrical work.

The RW test is practically identical to the Journeyman. Couple small variations.
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

Midget,

In Oregon a Journeyman electrician can run an electrical business as long as he hires a Supervising Electrician. This General Supervisor must be employed full time, on payroll, and be able to be contacted and able to show up on jobsite, if required of him. This means that he cannot live in Montana, signing in the state of Oregon.

As far as Plumber and HVAC Persons terminating electrical, this is a major no-no in the state of Oregon. The HVAC company can run and terminate thermostat wire, by at least a limited energy licensed employee. But anyone terminating line voltage wiring must be properly licensed to do so, under the supervision of a General Supervisor.

The exception to all of this is if an individual is wiring his own home, that he will live in, for at least two years. He then does not need any electrical license.
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

Ditto for Colorado: A Homeowner can wire their own house. I think the catch is, that you have to OWN the house/land in question. That is, if you're purchasing a house from Slam-Bam Builders, Inc., and have signed a contract, that's not good enough. But that homeowner must pass the same rigidity of inspection a professional would.

No license required for low voltage, and low voltage shouldn't be considered in inspection of a house here. (Technically a house can't fail based on low voltage.)
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

jeff43222,

I think you have explained Minnesota's rules more clearly than anyone I have encountered so far. I am curious about something though. I have a friend that holds a EE degree. He recently took the test for his Master's license.

Until now, I was under the impression that one must have some minimum documented practical work experience, as you have indicated, in order to sit for the master exam. Apparently his EE degree allows him to circumvent the minimum work experience rule. Unfortunately for him, he failed his first attempt by a small margin however if and when he tries again, should he pass he would be a licensed master with virtually no hands-on experience.

I have always held the opinion that the reason for the minimum work experience requirement was to prevent book-smart individuals from becoming licensed without practical experience. I equate it to driving a car. One can study all the rules and learn all he/she can about driving a car but until one gets behind the wheel, he/she does not know how to drive a car.

What are your thoughts about this?


Bob
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

Pa. is very strange. Most non-union shops are run by E.E.,but union shops are run by union tested master electricians. The state does not have statewide exams wich means that even though I have 20 years of experience I am on the same grade as someone who just picked up a wire snip.If I wanted to do work in a certian township or city I would need to take the test for that area. This means that I could only work in that area. The same goes for union electricians.
 
Re: Master/Journeyman/Contractor

I am not a licensed journeyman or master but I had heard one time that licensing through the electrical union is recognized throughout the United States. I was told that the process, training requirements, and testing is much more stringent than most state level guidlines. Is this correct or is it more complicated than that?

Bob
 
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