MC ap issue w/ Engineer

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kengod

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HI All,

Im new here,I hope I have posted this in the proper place.
I have seen threads about MC ap, but I having an issue with an Engineer on a Victoria's Secret we are wiring.
We have used Mc ap for about a year now on all of our jobs. WE have had no problems with inspectors or really anyone until now.

The Engineer stopped at the job site, saw an aluminum wire inside what looked to him to be MC. He asked me what it was and then side I cannot use it because the spec sheet says "All conduits, Including flexible metal conduit, shall be grounded with a green grounding conductor"
I tried to explain how MC ap works and that it is a better means of obtaining the equipment ground, and that it confirms to NEC 250.122 as well as being UL listed. he then went on by saying in his opinion this product we are using(that he never hear of before) will fail over time and be dangerous.
Tying to keep my cool because this guy was very opinionated, I told him with all due respect I would ask that you educated yourself on the product before you condemn it. (again he repeated his opinion on the failure of the product)

At that point I knew that I needed to approach this issue from another angle. I explained to him that his spec about a green grounding conductor applies to " All conduits, Including flexible metal conduit" and that Mc or MC ap is not in that category. he told me mc is flexible metal conduit, I then replied to him that he was incorrect, Mc is metal clad cable, cable is cable and conduit is conduit, he is comparing a horse to a mule. he said he begs to differ. I told him call any electrical supply house and order FMC and see what they deliver. He will get greenfield not Mc or MC ap.
he said he will have to get with the senior Engineers and will let us know if we can use it or not. I emailed him the Southwire website for his review.
I wont know anything till Tuesday now.
Of course ALL the wiring is installed and if he refuses to let me use this product I'm going to loss my butt on this job.

Sorry for the long winded post, but I wanted to give everyone a complete picture of my situation and would ask if anyone has ANYTHING that would help me change this guys mind It would be GREATLY appreciated

Tx
Ken
 
I agree that MCap is not flexible metal conduit it is a cable assembly.

That said EEs can specify anything they want, they do not have to accept Southwires word that it is just as good.

In your case because of MCap being a cable assembly not a flexible metal conduit you might have a leg to stand on ..... however if you successfully argue that MCap is not flexible metal conduit how would that effect the rest of the specs?

Could he then say no cable assemblies, use only conduits and flexible metal conduit. Keep in mind EMT is not conduit so the job would be limited to RMC, IMC or RNC etc.
 
EMT - Electrical Metallic Tubing

RMC - Rigid Metal Conduit
 
The specs are not 100% clear, but they appear to limit the use of flexible conduits and MC cables to the final connections to the equipment.
 
Those specs are a mess, good luck is all I can say.

It is obvious he is using the word 'conduit' in a general sense and not the precise use of conduit in the NEC.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The specs are not 100% clear, but they appear to limit the use of flexible conduits and MC cables to the final connections to the equipment.
Click to expand...

That was what I was noticing as well.
 
I am hoping that all the contradiction and lack of proper terminology will get me past this if he doesn't embrace the MC ap way.

again, tx for the thoughts and any other thoughts will be appreciated

Ken
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The specs are not 100% clear, but they appear to limit the use of flexible conduits and MC cables to the final connections to the equipment.
Click to expand...
Spec 6 a. VI

In walls ( for light switches and 120 volt receptacles......)

Looks good to me.

Bob, did you see the first sentence of #2?
 
peter d said:
Those are all typical "boiler plate" specs. They likely just cut and paste them into every spec book that they create.
Click to expand...
So you don't have to follow them?

Any 20A circuit over 150' has to be #8? The store must be loaded with it.:smile:

All conductors #12 shall be solid. Are you kidding me?
 
chris kennedy said:
So you don't have to follow them?
Click to expand...

Did I say that? :confused:

I was pointing out they they are very generic specs. I highly doubt the engineers actually take into consideration real trade practices and job site conditions.
 
that looks like a pretty standard spec for a limited store (IMO). Since they didn't specify the type of MC you were limited in using, seems like you have a leg to stand on, but it would have (obviously) been better to note the substitution in your bid or submittal prior to installing (Especially since they clearly inteded to have a grounding conductor in lieu of using conduit for grounds (which would lead one to believe that sheaths would have similarly been undesired for grounding perhaps ?) (again, jmsho)
 
The other thing I was wondering is why there is no engineering seal or stamp on the prints. most of the prints we receive need to have an engineering seal or stamp for the building department.
 
nakulak said:
that looks like a pretty standard spec for a limited store (IMO). Since they didn't specify the type of MC you were limited in using, seems like you have a leg to stand on, but it would have (obviously) been better to note the substitution in your bid or submittal prior to installing (Especially since they clearly inteded to have a grounding conductor in lieu of using conduit for grounds (which would lead one to believe that sheaths would have similarly been undesired for grounding perhaps ?) (again, jmsho)
Click to expand...


The sheath is not the equipment ground though. the #10 Aluminum conductor is. Of course it is in contact with the armor which in my opinion makes it a much better and safer system than typical metal clad. So if EMT is not conduit why is it listed under conduit fill in the code book? No room for tubing fill? What about LT?
 
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