MC vs EMT

LarryFine · 2024-10-30T23:45:35-0400

infinity said:
Yes that can save you having to set up 13 reels. You can also make two pulls in the 1" EMT.

Then you need additional wire colors (may as well pull all at one time) or wire-marking/tagging.

This is what I mean. There are advantages and disadvantages to alternate ways of doing things.

That's why we have these discussions; to share and compare various methods and their merits.

Example: two home runs allows for J-boxes in different places, which may or may not be helpful.

electrofelon · 2024-10-31T00:09:05-0400

LarryFine said:
I don't expect anyone to follow my suggestions. They're just alternatives to consider and price.

I tend to look at jobs from the installation point of view as a crew of one, perhaps with one helper.

I'm with you Larry, I would split it into two pipe runs . But that's me.

LarryFine · 2024-10-31T00:16:34-0400

electrofelon said:
I'm with you Larry, I would split it into two pipe runs . But that's me.

jmellc · 2024-10-31T02:31:11-0400

Alwayslearningelec said:
BTW how many 12/2 MC cables is practical to pull at once? Steel armor.

All MC I've seen is aluminum armor. I saw a site where steel can be ordered but it's not the norm.

fishin' electrician · 2024-10-31T06:52:09-0400

Ahh the good ol' days, two 12/4 MC's and I'm long gone in 'bout half the time.

Fred B · 2024-10-31T07:44:17-0400

I like pipe over cable when its available. Trying to keep cable looking neat over longer spans can be more difficult adding time = labor costs, of course T&M it wouldn't matter (only to the customer).
2 pipes to avoid the Derating issues.

infinity · 2024-10-31T07:52:09-0400

LarryFine said:
Then you need additional wire colors (may as well pull all at one time) or wire-marking/tagging.

This is what I mean. There are advantages and disadvantages to alternate ways of doing things.

Sure there are typically 10 ways to do the same task. Even if you split it into two raceways you would still need to mark the wires. I'm guessing that the cost of running two raceways is more than running one with #10's instead of #12's.

Strathead · 2024-10-31T07:54:12-0400

To your initial question, my rule of thumb is 2 circuits, MC is practical, over 2 circuits and conduit and wire are the default. The factors that ALL need to be considered, are material cost, manhours, ease of installation, and yes the workmanship aspect.

Strathead · 2024-10-31T07:59:50-0400

infinity said:
Sure there are typically 10 ways to do the same task. Even if you split it into two raceways you would still need to mark the wires. I'm guessing that the cost of running two raceways is more than running one with #10's instead of #12's.

Way too many variables to say one outweighs the other. With 2 raceways, you get closer to your final destination with each run if properly planned. With rack and one piece strut straps, the labor for the straight portion of the runs is greatly reduced, just having and handling the additional spools and weight per spool of wire and having the availability of the the "carts" and the space to setup the 13 spools of #10 2000 foot rolls. In most case over the long haul of f project, I am going with 3/4" with maximum of 4 circuits per conduit.

Rick 0920 · 2024-10-31T08:19:18-0400

infinity said:
He's saying that with two raceways you can run #12 AWG instead of a single raceway with #10 AWG. Personally I'd opt for the single 1" and the #10's.

If you shared a neutral with (3) circuits each, you could use #12's and only have (9) conductors. Depending on the loads, the neutrals might be considered as non- current carrying.

infinity · 2024-10-31T08:41:15-0400

Rick 0920 said:
If you shared a neutral with (3) circuits each, you could use #12's and only have (9) conductors. Depending on the loads, the neutrals might be considered as non- current carrying.

True and back in the day that's the way we would always do it. I'm guessing that MWBC's are not allowed for this installation.

infinity · 2024-10-31T08:45:54-0400

Strathead said:
Way too many variables to say one outweighs the other. With 2 raceways, you get closer to your final destination with each run if properly planned. With rack and one piece strut straps, the labor for the straight portion of the runs is greatly reduced, just having and handling the additional spools and weight per spool of wire and having the availability of the the "carts" and the space to setup the 13 spools of #10 2000 foot rolls. In most case over the long haul of f project, I am going with 3/4" with maximum of 4 circuits per conduit.

Like I said there are 10 ways to do this. You've made some assumptions like that they'll be using heavy 2000' reels of wire instead of 500' reels. With a single raceway you certainly wouldn't have to pull in all 6 circuits at one time.

For us on commercial jobs #10 stranded homeruns in 1" or 1.25" EMT are pretty much standard.

Strathead · 2024-10-31T10:38:58-0400

infinity said:
Like I said there are 10 ways to do this. You've made some assumptions like that they'll be using heavy 2000' reels of wire instead of 500' reels. With a single raceway you certainly wouldn't have to pull in all 6 circuits at one time.

For us on commercial jobs #10 stranded homeruns in 1" or 1.25" EMT are pretty much standard.

I wasn't arguing with you, I was agreeing with you "way too many variables" My items weren't assumptions they were just some of the considerations and drawbacks and indicating that for us, all things considered, the fall back is 3-4 circuits. Another thing in my area, most engineers spec out maximum 3 homeruns in a conduit. Not always, just usually.

AC\DC · 2024-10-31T10:48:07-0400

Did not look at all the comments but could use 12-4 and only pull 3.
Unless there going to possibly add thing in this area in the future. Easier and faster to run Mc

LarryFine · 2024-10-31T10:49:08-0400

Rick 0920 said:
If you shared a neutral with (3) circuits each, you could use #12's and only have (9) conductors. Depending on the loads, the neutrals might be considered as non- current carrying.

That's always been my preference, until the handle-tie proponents effectively made it impracticable.

LarryFine · 2024-10-31T10:49:51-0400

AC\DC said:
Did not look at all the comments but could use 12-4 and only pull 3.

That's part of this MWBC discussion.

AC\DC · 2024-10-31T10:51:06-0400

infinity said:
True and back in the day that's the way we would always do it. I'm guessing that MWBC's are not allowed for this installation.

I always wondered why it’s not actually mandatory for most jobs to save on vd and wire to meet the energy efficiency they always spout about

LarryFine said:
That's always been my preference, until the handle-tie proponents effectively made it impracticable.

Was it the handle ties that phased it out or those dumb afci breakers. Atleast those killed it in resi.

AC\DC · 2024-10-31T10:51:36-0400

LarryFine said:
That's part of this MWBC discussion.

Okay I’ll stay out to far behind

AC\DC · 2024-10-31T11:03:19-0400

LarryFine said:
That's part of this MWBC discussion.

Well he pulling 6 12-2 so a 12-4 would not be a multi wire circuit.

LarryFine · 2024-10-31T11:16:02-0400

AC\DC said:
Well he pulling 6 12-2 so a 12-4 would not be a multi wire circuit.

Ah, you mean 12-2-2.

L-N-L-N, not L-L-L-N.

MC vs EMT

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