Me vs. the customer

[peter d]

You'd lose that bet. Anyway, that's how we do it here in Los Angeles, there's no other way. Say a house has a 100 Amp flush panel fed from a 3" underground conduit from the POCO (DWP or SCE). Those utilities DO NOT disconnect service laterals or service drops for that matter. When upgrading these panels we do it hot.

I'm a safety minded, conservative guy, I avoid unnecessary risks, but here in So Cal, we must do these resi panels live, ask anyone.

May I ask why they won't disconnect a lateral? Doesn't seem to hard to open a padmount and pull a few wires off the terminals.

IIRC from past discussions on this topic, the real reason you do it live there is because it's a lot easier than dealing with the poco and inspection agencies.

 

[satcom]

May I ask why they won't disconnect a lateral? Doesn't seem to hard to open a padmount and pull a few wires off the terminals.

IIRC from past discussions on this topic, the real reason you do it live there is because it's a lot easier than dealing with the poco and inspection agencies.

It seems the real reason is not that the utility will not disconnect, but a dangerous short cut taken rather then "dealing with the poco and inspection agencies"

We have a few contractors that will ask a new employee how he does an underground service change, and if they proceed to tell how they do it live, the interview ends.

 

[RH1]

It seems the real reason is not that the utility will not disconnect, but a dangerous short cut taken rather then "dealing with the poco and inspection agencies"

We have a few contractors that will ask a new employee how he does an underground service change, and if they proceed to tell how they do it live, the interview ends.

Every service change starts with a "meter spot" by the DWP and ends with a city electrical inspection. Sorry to disappoint.

 

[peter d]

Every service change starts with a "meter spot" by the DWP and ends with a city electrical inspection. Sorry to disappoint.

So why won't they do a temporary disconnect then?

 

[jaylectricity]

What type of electrical work are people doing that risk their lives?

You've never had to hook up a service entrance cable to the service drop from the street? They don't have a switch for that at the pole.

Let him know the electrical contractor average is 7% or less profit, where as a GC he gets on average 50% or more on each sub trade he has working, he makes "ALL" the money.

Good point. This particular GC is still young. He's been good to me, but that's probably because he knows he can count on me. I overheard him tell the plumber to add 10% to his bill.

I usually tell him that he can get his money if he pays me for the work and charges the customer accordingly. He DOES have to answer the customer's calls that start with, "Hey, I haven't heard from the plumber. Is he going to be here soon?"

 

[LarryFine]

They don't have a switch for that at the pole.

Sure they do: the transformer primary cutout.

 

[macmikeman]

Our poco guys here do not insist you do underground meter swap outs live, if you protest they will bust up the sidewalk and cut the lateral, but they "prefer" that you do not require that step. Here it is not so difficult as where RH-1 is located because most every meter can is surface mounted not flushed into the wall. Still it is dicey work. Mactip- If the incomming line is #2 you can use an Ideal Blue wirenut and then after screwing it on the conductor really well, go ahead and tape it some more to make sure it stays on. (tape is not really required, just feels safer).

 

[macmikeman]

Sure they do: the transformer primary cutout.

Then the result is more than just the dwelling you are working on goes off line. It is the proper safe way to go, but what poco will promote that?

 

[Mr. Wizard]

It's Friday, and no word yet from the TV repairman. But, I received my check yesterday , written and signed by the womans husband. I'm not sure really what went on, or what kind of meds this lady could have (must have) been on. Lesson learned, boys and girls, when doing a service upgrade, unplug all electronics and TV's from the circuits, and plug them in after verifying voltage. Have fun, be safe, and thanks for everyone's input, I'm off to work.

 

[growler]

Our poco guys here do not insist you do underground meter swap outs live, if you protest they will bust up the sidewalk and cut the lateral, but they "prefer" that you do not require that step.

If I owned stock in the power company I would be interested in what they "prefer" but as it is I'm only interested in my "butt".

The power company is a business and they provide a service for money and the guys that work there are paid by the hour. What they have to do to make a profit is not my concern but my safety is my concern.

I say let the power company look out for themselves and I will look out for my own safety.

As far as I know you can schedule a power shut down to any location. The only time I have ever gotten into any trouble is when I didn't follow the correct proceedure.

If you get just one guy killed doing a change out hot see if the power company is willing to pay any legal fees for you. Oh no they will be right there in court saying they do provide for a scheduled shut down of service for repairs and that there really is no reason to work the service hot.

If they can't shut down the service I want a signed letter stating exactly why they can not do this. Why they refuse to and why it's so all important that things be worked hot. I also want their permission to work the service hot because the feed belongs to them.

 

[satcom]

Then the result is more than just the dwelling you are working on goes off line. It is the proper safe way to go, but what poco will promote that?

At the cabinet they only disconnect the the home you are working on, there is no reason to work them hot.

 

[Power Tech]

You'd lose that bet. Anyway, that's how we do it here in Los Angeles, there's no other way. Say a house has a 100 Amp flush panel fed from a 3" underground conduit from the POCO (DWP or SCE). Those utilities DO NOT disconnect service laterals or service drops for that matter. When upgrading these panels we do it hot.

I saw/chip out the stucco surrounding the panel, line the existing panel with cardboard, carefully remove and tape up the service conductors and pull the old panel upward and out, and carefully put the new panel over the conductors, etc.

I'm a safety minded, conservative guy, I avoid unnecessary risks, but here in So Cal, we must do these resi panels live, ask anyone.

This is how it is done in LA with DWP and Edison. Per the service planners.

UG, unless you want the power disconnected for at least a week. You do it hot.

I have complained to the POCO's and the Bld. Dpt. that they need to streamline the process. I asked the planner what the other contractors do? He said they use a lot of tape.

 

[bradleyelectric]

This is how it is done in LA with DWP and Edison. Per the service planners.

UG, unless you want the power disconnected for at least a week. You do it hot.

I have complained to the POCO's and the Bld. Dpt. that they need to streamline the process. I asked the planner what the other contractors do? He said they use a lot of tape.

Did you get that in writing? Have you ever asked them for written procedures for a repair outage? Have you ever told them you have a job that houses information kept on computers and they need to be up within 10 hours to see how they reply? If they reply with the hot reply tell them you need the written authorization to work there lines hot.

 

[Power Tech]

At the cabinet they only disconnect the the home you are working on, there is no reason to work them hot.

I agree, what is the big deal. According to Edison and DWP -- If they disconnect the wire in the hand hole, they need a power release from the BD before reconnect.

They need to cut the red tape.

As I have said, in this time where it is safety first? AFCI's, GFCI's etc..

We make sure no one gets shocked or killed in a fire.

Who cares about a stinking, bloodsucking contractors.

Do it hot I hope you die is the attitude I face.

Or.

Let us see how many hoops we can make them jump through before they go broke.

 

[satcom]

I don't believe some of the guys working underground service changes hot understand the hazzards involved, if the conductor makes contact with the meter pan, the amount of current that will flow in a short time, may be high, and the shock is only part of the problem, but you may not survive the burns or the explosion, and I am talking about a residential service. Anyone with a good knowladge of the trade understands these hazzards, and does not have to be told not to work underground services hot.

I would so far as to say, it may be criminal if you instruct someone to work a service hot and they are injured.

 

[LarryFine]

Then the result is more than just the dwelling you are working on goes off line. It is the proper safe way to go, but what poco will promote that?

I see it as not an option. There are things I'll do hot, but messing with service conductors with what is basically unlimited current isn't one of them.

 

[growler]

I don't believe some of the guys working underground service changes hot understand the hazzards involved, if the conductor makes contact with the meter pan, the amount of current that will flow in a short time, may be high, and the shock is only part of the problem, but you may not survive the burns or the explosion, and I am talking about a residential service.

Even worse they may survive the burns and explosion and end up in the burn clinic for several months asking themselves why they wanted to do that in the first place, was it really worth it. I know of a couple guys that ended up with some really bad burns ( not from residential ) but I'm not sure where the cut off is. Most people probably don't wear any face protection and that's where they start with the skin grafts, they peel the skin off your butt to make you a new face. Then you really are a butt face. I like the idea of wearing my hide as issued in it's original condition.

 

[LarryFine]

. . . they peel the skin off your butt to make you a new face. Then you really are a butt face. I like the idea of wearing my hide as issued in it's original condition.

And in its original location.

 

[satcom]

In the past our utility company invited all the area electrical contractors to their test site, and did a demo of low, medium and high voltage faults, you needed a camera to see the faces on the electricians, not the flying hot metal and explosions with fire, it might be time for the utilities to offer these safety demos again.

 

[Power Tech]

Did you get that in writing? Have you ever asked them for written procedures for a repair outage? Have you ever told them you have a job that houses information kept on computers and they need to be up within 10 hours to see how they reply? If they reply with the hot reply tell them you need the written authorization to work there lines hot.

I have told them all that and more. Refrigerators, people are living here.

Get a generator and then what. Who feeds that for a week? The customer gets burned with gas, who is responsible?

For the last few years I have not done any UG service changes. I will get the next one in writing.