Mechanical room

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hhsting

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Glen bunie, md, us
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Junior plan reviewer
I have dwelling unit which has Mechanical Room which has washer, dryer and AC equipment.

Washer has its own 120V 20A receptacle, dryer has it own 208V single phase receptacle and so does AC has maintenance 120V 20A receptacle in Mechanical Room.

I can see that washer receptacle is GFCI. However there are no sinks but still plan designer show AC maintenance receptacle to be GFCI. Does NEC 2014 section 210.8(A) require AC maintenance receptacle to be GFCI or not? Would this entire area be considered laundry areas?
 
IMO, not specifically addressed.
Likely an AHJ call so only opinions here.
If the plans have the room identified that would likely aid in making the decision.
(If it's only one dwelling, make it a GFCI and move on..not worth the concern)
'
 
210.8(A)(2) ...... work areas, and areas of similar use. That last portion of the statement could be interpreted as the reasoning for GFCI receptacle there if pushed. But 210.8(A)(10) simply states "Laundry areas" no reference to a sink, so if you got a washing machine and dryer, it's a Laundry area and any other receptacle in that area requires GFCI protection unless it it otherwise exempt. If it walks like a duck quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's a duck.
 
hhsting said:
I have dwelling unit which has Mechanical Room which has washer, dryer and AC equipment.

Washer has its own 120V 20A receptacle, dryer has it own 208V single phase receptacle and so does AC has maintenance 120V 20A receptacle in Mechanical Room.

I can see that washer receptacle is GFCI. However there are no sinks but still plan designer show AC maintenance receptacle to be GFCI. Does NEC 2014 section 210.8(A) require AC maintenance receptacle to be GFCI or not? Would this entire area be considered laundry areas?
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Question: why would you spend the time thinking about this? I believe you are a plan reviewer. I understand it would be different the other way around, if there wasn't GFCI provided and you weren't sure if it was required, but it's provided so what could possibly be non compliant?

Edit: fair enough if this is just an academic question. IMO I don't see how the room could not be considered a laundry area.
 
Fred B said:
210.8(A)(2) ...... work areas, and areas of similar use. That last portion of the statement could be interpreted as the reasoning for GFCI receptacle there if pushed. But 210.8(A)(10) simply states "Laundry areas" no reference to a sink, so if you got a washing machine and dryer, it's a Laundry area and any other receptacle in that area requires GFCI protection unless it it otherwise exempt. If it walks like a duck quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's a duck.
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To pick a nit, per NEC definition, it’s a laundry area if it contains a washing machine OR a dryer...you don’t need both.
 
electrofelon said:
Question: why would you spend the time thinking about this? I believe you are a plan reviewer. I understand it would be different the other way around, if there wasn't GFCI provided and you weren't sure if it was required, but it's provided so what could possibly be non compliant?
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I didn’t ask for it, designer provided it and clouded it. Was verifying just in case
 
Yeah he is the designer, you are the reviewer who checks for code compliance. He can do whatever he wants as long as code compliant. Compliant, move on..... I'm just trying to save you from an early death by heart disease 😉
 
electrofelon said:
Yeah he is the designer, you are the reviewer who checks for code compliance. He can do whatever he wants as long as code compliant. Compliant, move on..... I'm just trying to save you from an early death by heart disease 😉
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Exactly, if it's not a violation, even if it is above code minimum, NP. Had a customer who want gfi on all 120V 15-20A receptacles, told him it was not necessary but HE thought if it was good on bath and kitchen it was good elsewhere.
 
Required by the 2020 code. See 210.8(E).
For liability reasons, designers will often require protection per the most current code, even though the area where the installation is at, it covered by an older code.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Required by the 2020 code. See 210.8(E).
For liability reasons, designers will often require protection per the most current code, even though the area where the installation is at, it covered by an older code.
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Not really AHJ around here only enforce NEC code version which they adopted. If you go with any other version they have not adopted they will reject install or plans. So if you do NEc 2017 or 2020 and AHJ adopted NEC 2014 then all install or plans get rejected
 
Are you saying that if I elect to install a GFCI receptacle in an area where it is not Code required the inspection will fail ?
 
hhsting said:
Not really AHJ around here only enforce NEC code version which they adopted. If you go with any other version they have not adopted they will reject install or plans. So if you do NEc 2017 or 2020 and AHJ adopted NEC 2014 then all install or plans get rejected
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Only time that should ever be an issue is under the circumstance when a newer code makes an allowance not found in older code, but if design or installation is above minimum code requirements it shouldn't be an issue, such as putting AFCI where not required (most would never do it but) or putting a larger gauge ground wire than required. The NEC is a minimum standard.
I can't see an AHJ rejecting a plan or installation if it goes "better" than minimum.
The design company or the one hiring a designer or contractor may reject going above code minimum. (Minimize costs)
 
augie47 said:
Are you saying that if I elect to install a GFCI receptacle in an area where it is not Code required the inspection will fail ?
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Example I place 208V single phase receptacle in commercial Kitchen GFCI which is found NEC 2017. This is not in NEC 2014. AHJ here would flag it saying cannot do whats in NEC 2017 adopted NEC 2014
 
augie47 said:
"stupid is as stupid does".....
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Their reasoning is that one can do everything in NEC 2017 should they allow anything in 2017 while AHJ has adopted NEC 2014. So no not really. They say its their AHJ as whole decided to adopt NEC 2014 Not other version no matter how much better or worse updated versions are. They say if its something essential then local amendment can be made and to site that local amendment


I have seen AHJ in 2008 NEC and wont allow anything should they find in newer version of NEC
 
hhsting said:
Their reasoning is that one can do everything in NEC 2017 should they allow anything in 2017 while AHJ has adopted NEC 2014. So no not really. They say its their AHJ as whole decided to adopt NEC 2014 Not other version no matter how much better or worse updated versions are. They say if its something essential then local amendment can be made and to site that local amendment


I have seen AHJ in 2008 NEC and wont allow anything should they find in newer version of NEC
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Again the NEC is a minimum code, if a newer code allows an installation that is prohibited in an older version that is adopted by AHJ, the older code in that case stands.

But if older code does not prohibit an installation that might be required in newer code while it would not be required by the older standing code it would not disallow the installation, ie 2020 requires a whole house surge protection, 2014 does not prohibit, so I can install WHSP while under 2014 cycle, but I don't have to.

Are you saying that the AHJ under the 2008 NEC would prohibit the installation of a GFCI protection in a crawl space because it is required in the 2017 but not in the 2008, and fail it if it was installed?
 
Fred B said:
Again the NEC is a minimum code, if a newer code allows an installation that is prohibited in an older version that is adopted by AHJ, the older code in that case stands.

But if older code does not prohibit an installation that might be required in newer code while it would not be required by the older standing code it would not disallow the installation, ie 2020 requires a whole house surge protection, 2014 does not prohibit, so I can install WHSP while under 2014 cycle, but I don't have to.

Are you saying that the AHJ under the 2008 NEC would prohibit the installation of a GFCI protection in a crawl space because it is required in the 2017 but not in the 2008, and fail it if it was installed?
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yes not just that but wiring methods , everything cables all revert back to only 2008 only. Again their reasoning is that they adopted 2008 and follow only 2008
 
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