Meeting Room receptacle outlets

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mhanson

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Redwood City, CA
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General Journeyman Electrician
Meeting Rooms. Opinions needed,
In Jan issue of ELECTRICAL CONTRACTOR Magazine, CODE FAQS, a reader asks the question "If Two duplex receptacles are installed in a 4-inch box in a wall, can I count that as Two receptacles outlets to comply with 210.65 for meeting rooms?..."
Author responds "NO" reciting definition of "Outlet"
I believe the intent of this section is to the number of wall receptacles required, and not the number of outlets required.
By the author's statement, a 1 gang box and a 6 gang box loaded with duplex receptacles would both count as a single receptacle outlet.
Appreciate your thoughts.
Thank you
Michael H.
 
This could be another instance where the language of the code might not express the intent behind it. But I believe an outlet is the opening, not the number of devices in the opening.

A 6-gang box is one outlet
 
You can't much dumber than this. You determine the number of outlets required and then the designer gets to choose where they get installed so if he says I need 6 so put them in a 6 gang and that's not good but 6 receptacles right next to each other is OK?
 
infinity said:
You can't much dumber than this. You determine the number of outlets required and then the designer gets to choose where they get installed so if he says I need 6 so put them in a 6 gang and that's not good but 6 receptacles right next to each other is OK?
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I think we had a very similar discussion about garage outlet requirements. The code requires one FOR each bay, but it doesn't say it has to be one IN each bay. One 2-gang box not ok. Two 1-gang boxes on same stud is ok.

I think somebody asked, what if we put a plugmold strip all the way across the back wall of a two car garage?

The same thing could be asked about an office. What if there is a single raceway assembly that has multiple receptacles in it? It's sold as a multi-outlet strip.

I really think the language in the code needs to be cleaned up by people who work in the field
 
infinity said:
You can't much dumber than this. You determine the number of outlets required and then the designer gets to choose where they get installed so if he says I need 6 so put them in a 6 gang and that's not good but 6 receptacles right next to each other is OK?
Click to expand...
I agree & I believe the same applies to the island & peninsula outlet requirements.
 
James L said:
I think we had a very similar discussion about garage outlet requirements. The code requires one FOR each bay, but it doesn't say it has to be one IN each bay. One 2-gang box not ok. Two 1-gang boxes on same stud is ok.

I think somebody asked, what if we put a plugmold strip all the way across the back wall of a two car garage?

The same thing could be asked about an office. What if there is a single raceway assembly that has multiple receptacles in it? It's sold as a multi-outlet strip.

I really think the language in the code needs to be cleaned up by people who work in the field
Click to expand...
What code are you under? I think the 2017 code changed the wording from FOR to IN each car bay.
 
rc/retired said:
What code are you under? I think the 2017 code changed the wording from FOR to IN each car bay.
Click to expand...
It's all over the place around here. I just wired a house in one city that's on 2017. I wired a house only a few months ago in a city that's on 2011. I have a house coming up very shortly in a city that's on 2002

It's exhausting trying to keep up around here
 
This could be another instance where the language of the code might not express the intent behind it. But I believe an outlet is the opening, not the number of devices in the opening.

A 6-gang box is one outlet
Click to expand...

James,
To me it's quite clear, 210.65(A) specifies that "...shall have outlets for non locking-type, 125-volt, 15- or 20-amper receptacles." this tells me we are counting receptacles not outlets.
we can all agree a receptacle is an outlet, we know there are other types of outlets, but that's not our focus for this discussion. The purpe is to have enough receptacles for electronic equipment such as computers, projectors, or similar equipment.

Thank You for your input
 
mhanson said:
James,
To me it's quite clear, 210.65(A) specifies that "...shall have outlets for non locking-type, 125-volt, 15- or 20-amper receptacles." this tells me we are counting receptacles not outlets.
we can all agree a receptacle is an outlet, we know there are other types of outlets, but that's not our focus for this discussion. The purpe is to have enough receptacles for electronic equipment such as computers, projectors, or similar equipment.

Thank You for your input
Click to expand...
There are a couple of points. First, "a receptacle" is not necessarily an outlet, because a receptacle outlet is "an outlet where ONE OR MORE RECEPTACLES are installed.

ONE 6-gang OUTLET will accommodate six RECEPTACLES. And if you do that, it's only one outlet.

And it can help to compare where some of the same wording is used in relation to other applications.

Outlet versus device is a point of conflict.
 
There are a couple of points. First, "a receptacle" is not necessarily an outlet, because a receptacle outlet is "an outlet where ONE OR MORE RECEPTACLES are installed.

ONE 6-gang OUTLET will accommodate six RECEPTACLES. And if you do that, it's only one outlet.

And it can help to compare where some of the same wording is used in relation to other applications.

Outlet versus device is a point of conflict.
Click to expand...

James,
Your absolutely right, I misspoke I can see how easy it is to veer off track. I want my point to remain, the purpose of this section as it pertains to the readers question of number of wall receptacles for the meeting room. A number of receptacles will be required for plug in electronic devices depending on the size of the meeting room, the method of counting is described in 210.52(A)(1) thru (A)(4).
Getting caught up in the definition of an OUTLET is simply a distraction in this case. I almost feel this word should be left out.

INFINITY points out the obvious absurdity of counting OUTLETS rather than RECEPTACLES.
 
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