Melted Neutral Mystery

[growler]

I have never seen Knob and Tube wiring in a house that was 80 years old that was in good shape. It could be the heat here but even the areas between floors gets hot even in winter because heat rises to the ceiling.

I was in GA for 13 weeks in 1986 at Ft. Benning for Army Basic Training. I don't remember it being that much hotter then it gets here though it seem like hottest place in the world at times, but that wasn't necessarily because of where I was at as much as what I was doing. I really doubt the usual weather conditions have much effect here, unless you have a location that get higher then 150 - 160 degrees F.

I didn't say that Georgia was hotter than any other part of the country. I have been many places that were hotter than here but this is the only place where I have inspected old Knob and Tube wiring. I do think there are places that are cooler than Georgia and the insulation may hold up better there.


Again I say that I haven't seen any 80 year old wiring that I am willing to tell a homeowner that it's completely safe. I don't tell anyone their house is going to burn but I do tell them what I find and many times the insulation is falling off and I can't say that's not a problem.


When I was in basic training it was only 8 weeks long. People were smarter and faster back then and it didn't take so long to train them.

 

[kwired]

I didn't say that Georgia was hotter than any other part of the country. I have been many places that were hotter than here but this is the only place where I have inspected old Knob and Tube wiring. I do think there are places that are cooler than Georgia and the insulation may hold up better there.


Again I say that I haven't seen any 80 year old wiring that I am willing to tell a homeowner that it's completely safe. I don't tell anyone their house is going to burn but I do tell them what I find and many times the insulation is falling off and I can't say that's not a problem.


When I was in basic training it was only 8 weeks long. People were smarter and faster back then and it didn't take so long to train them.

I guess I wouldn't tell anyone 80 year old wiring is completely safe, but I also won't tell them their 8 day old wiring is completely safe either. There is always a hazard that is lurking that may not be obvious.

Basic training was only 8 weeks, but was there for 13 for OSUT and completed AIT during the same stay, i don't always consider them to be separate since I was at the same place the entire time, but technically they were separate.

 

[brycenesbitt]

How can you tell the condition of the insulation without a visual inspection? Megger won't do much good. If you open for inspection you may as well replace it.

If you can't inspect, there's no shock hazard. It's enclosed, and the tubes do any work the insulation is not doing.

What about the condition of the conductors at the fixture junction boxes? Anywhere there was a ceiling mount type fixture there are normally conductors that are so brittle that the insulation is falling off.

That's easily remedied. Replacement loom is still sold. But even better, a roll of white and a roll of black 3/8 shrink tubing and a hair dryer. The old cloth stuff gets really grotty in those boxes. Trim the cloth back a bit to start, and ensure the shrink tubing slips deep enough to be comfortably past the metal box edge. In some cases you may have to jettison a metal clip, if present. Follow up with some vintage loom to make it look authentic (it is still sold!) and it's good to go.

The problem I see with leaving any Knob & Tube wiring is that when a house is sold you are pretty much forced to disclose the fact that there is still old wiring in the house and that it has not been completely rewired.

Not a problem in this area.


I see a reasonable level of care as:

1. Rewire the kitchen, laundry and bath shaver outlet to current code.
2. Add selective new circuits (e.g. for a shop or window A/C).
3. Have a box of 2-prong outlets handy, for swapping out improper 3 prong outlets.
4. Add an AFCI to the K&T, using a 2-pole version if the neutral is common.
5. For any fixture removed (e.g. a luminary) do the shrink wrap thing above.
6. Write a note saying that 90% of the amps are on new circuits, that K&T is AFCI protected, and that the exposed K&T has been inspected and is free of goobers.
7. Don't use the word goober.
8. Leave a bid for complete upgrade, and for an outlet-only upgrade.

Fuses of course are completely unacceptable. But if you do have to leave those, stick in Type-S bases when nobody is looking.