Meter wiring problem

[SgtBOMBULOUS]

Hello! This will be my first post here. We recently had my house upgraded to a 400 amp service. Outside, from the overhead line, the electrician ran 350 kcmil down conduit and readied it to enter the new meter box. When the BGE contractor came, they set up the box, etc. Everything seemed great (They even replaced the service drop wire!).

But then... I overheard the "boss" telling his employee "Yah gotta really dig in when you're stripping these". He removed the outer ring of wires from the 350 in order to fit the end into a 4/0 lug. He called the 350 "overkill", and said he didn't have a lug for the 350.

He also left the CL200 meter unit in place. Also curious about opinions on this.

So... How concerned about this should I be? When the electric inspector came, he didn't think it was the right way to do it, but said there's nothing he can do about it, and that utilities basically do whatever they want.

Thanks!

 

[augie47]

Dependent on your service disconnect(s) size the 350 may or may not be correct.
As to the connections, what you were told is basically correct. The power company has there own procedures which are not regulated by the NEC or the inspector.
I would not be too concerned as it is not likely to cause any problems IMO.

 

[infinity]

If this is an overhead service where is the service point? That's where the NEC would start to apply. If it's after the meter then maybe you can complain to the POCO or just hope that the thing doesn't go on fire at some point.

 

[SgtBOMBULOUS]

If this is an overhead service where is the service point? That's where the NEC would start to apply. If it's after the meter then maybe you can complain to the POCO or just hope that the thing doesn't go on fire at some point.

This is inside the meter box. Maybe In posted this in the wrong place... Sorry. But anyway, This is where the main three conductors come INTO the meter, where they connect to the incoming terminals in the meter box. After that on the downstream side of the meter itself, it splits into 4/0 and goes to the two disconnects.

 

[infinity]

This is inside the meter box. Maybe In posted this in the wrong place... Sorry. But anyway, This is where the main three conductors come INTO the meter, where they connect to the incoming terminals in the meter box. After that on the downstream side of the meter itself, it splits into 4/0 and goes to the two disconnects.

I understand but my question is where is the service point as determined by the POCO? Is it at the terminals on the line side of the meter or at the connection to the drop from the pole? After the service point the NEC applies. So if the cut strands are on the POCO side then the NEC would not apply and it would be up to the POCO to determine if that's acceptable. It the service point is ahead of the meter terminals then the NEC would apply to the curt strands and the electrical inspector should fail those connections.

Service Point. The point of connection between the facilities of the serving utility and the premises wiring. (CMP-4)
Informational Note: The service point can be described as the point of demarcation between where the serving utility ends and the premises wiring begins. The serving utility generally specifies the location of the service point based on the conditions of service.

 

[SgtBOMBULOUS]

I understand but my question is where is the service point as determined by the POCO? Is it at the terminals on the line side of the meter or at the connection to the drop from the pole? After the service point the NEC applies. So if the cut strands are on the POCO side then the NEC would not apply and it would be up to the POCO to determine if that's acceptable. It the service point is ahead of the meter terminals then the NEC would apply to the curt strands and the electrical inspector should fail those connections.

This is surely in the ballpark of the POCO. My question is whether this should pose a concern for heat generation etc, since the conductor size was reduced. The electrical inspector advised me to complain to the POCO and hopefully a meter inspector will look at it.

 

[infinity]

This is surely in the ballpark of the POCO. My question is whether this should pose a concern for heat generation etc, since the conductor size was reduced. The electrical inspector advised me to complain to the POCO and hopefully a meter inspector will look at it.

So if it's on the POCO side then you'll need to complain to them. What is the load calculation come up with in terms of load? Are you anywhere near the 400 amps?

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

As was mentioned, it sounds like a POCO issue.

In reality, there is more than likely zero issue with it.

Trimming wires to fit lugs, while a grey area in the Code, and, in my opinion, not best practice, is in the real world, done a lot. I personally don't, but I also fail to see the big difference between trimming wires and utilizing a wire reducing terminal.



Had one inspector look at a panel where I had installed an ATS, and one of the neutral wires was trimmed. I didn't do it, it was existing, and he just shrugged and said "sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to make it work".

Many panels are designed so poorly that sometimes things like that is inevitable, like the fact that most neutral bars won't fit wiring above #10, maybe #8, but you regularly have sub panels, hot tubs, EV chargers, etc, all requiring 40, 50, 60 and 100 amp circuits.

 

[jap]

This doesn't make sense.
An actual 320a rated Meter would have lugs larger than 4/0 max.

Jap>

 

[SgtBOMBULOUS]

As was mentioned, it sounds like a POCO issue.

In reality, there is more than likely zero issue with it.

Trimming wires to fit lugs, while a grey area in the Code, and, in my opinion, not best practice, is in the real world, done a lot. I personally don't, but I also fail to see the big difference between trimming wires and utilizing a wire reducing terminal.

View attachment 2573516

Had one inspector look at a panel where I had installed an ATS, and one of the neutral wires was trimmed. I didn't do it, it was existing, and he just shrugged and said "sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to make it work".

Many panels are designed so poorly that sometimes things like that is inevitable, like the fact that most neutral bars won't fit wiring above #10, maybe #8, but you regularly have sub panels, hot tubs, EV chargers, etc, all requiring 40, 50, 60 and 100 amp circuits.

Ok... I guess I'll make a decision on whether to bug them.

 

[jap]

The odd part to me is that you supply the wire and the POCO does the termination on the line side of the meter.

In my area either we supply the wire and do the terminations, or the POCO supplies the wire and does the terminations.

If it was their wire and their terminations, if it went bad they'd be responsible for it.

As it is, if the termination goes south it's your wire and their termination.

Seems odd.

Jap>

 

[SgtBOMBULOUS]

The odd part to me is that you supply the wire and the POCO does the termination on the line side of the meter.

In my area either we supply the wire and do the terminations, or the POCO supplies the wire and does the terminations.

If it was their wire and their terminations, if it went bad they'd be responsible for it.

As it is, if the termination goes south it's your wire and their termination.

Seems odd.

Jap>

My electrician ran the 350 MCM from the weatherhead to a piece of conduit, sticking up vertically (which would meet up with the center bottom hole of the meter panel). The POCO contractor then placed the meter panel, and did all of the work inside it to get the incoming line and the lines to the disconnects wired up. The POCO also connected the wires at the weatherhead to the line.

 

[electrofelon]

This doesn't make sense.
An actual 320a rated Meter would have lugs larger than 4/0 max.

Jap>

I think he said it's just a 200A socket

 

[infinity]

This doesn't make sense.
An actual 320a rated Meter would have lugs larger than 4/0 max.

Maybe the terminals were set up for parallel conductors so (2) #4/0 lugs.

My electrician ran the 350 MCM from the weatherhead to a piece of conduit, sticking up vertically (which would meet up with the center bottom hole of the meter panel). The POCO contractor then placed the meter panel, and did all of the work inside it to get the incoming line and the lines to the disconnects wired up. The POCO also connected the wires at the weatherhead to the line.

Can you post some photos?

 

[jap]

I think he said it's just a 200A socket

He said they re-used the CL200 (200a rated meter) which would fit in a 320a rated socket.

Sound like the meter did not come with lugs and the power company didn't have the correct size so they trimmed it.

In our area we would install a 320a rated meterbase, do all the terminations Line and Load at the meterbase and line side of the service disconnect with the correct wire sizes.

The POCO would only be left with the termination at the weatherhead.

JAP>

 

[SgtBOMBULOUS]

He said they re-used the CL200 (200a rated meter) which would fit in a 320a rated socket.

Sound like the meter did not come with lugs and the power company didn't have the correct size so they trimmed it.

In our area we would install a 320a rated meterbase, do all the terminations Line and Load at the meterbase and line side of the service disconnect with the correct wire sizes.

The POCO would only be left with the termination at the weatherhead.

JAP>

Yes, it is definitely a 400/320 box. The meter itself is the same 200 amp / CL200 unit they had in the old 200 amp meter box (is there something else these are called? It almost sounds like the entire enclosure and the device itself are both called "meter" interchangeably).

I think I remember the box being mostly empty, and they assembled it on site.

I can't show you inside the meter box because it's sealed with a utility tag.

 

[jap]

That service wouldn't fly in our area.
It gives you access to unmetered power on the line side of the meter base through the LL.
And yes, there are (2) components that make up a meter, a Meter Socket, and, the Meter itself.

Jap>

 

[Hv&Lv]

We put class 200 meters in 320A meter bases all the time. Electricians put in 320A bases and the peak load never gets over 25kW

 

[roger]

I don't think the LLB is correct for three 350's besides the whole thing being a total mess(Just my HO). Why couldn't a proper hub be used for top entry? Might be a good idea to look for a new EC

 

[roger]

Ok... I guess I'll make a decision on whether to bug them.

This makes it sound as though you're doing the work yourself and the forum rules do not allow us to assist in DIY projects so I am closing the thread. As others have said you probably have nothing to fret over.