metering of power

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stew

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Is it true or false that submetering of power with purpose of creating your own charges for poer is illegal? My recolection is that our power companies in Washington state will not allow it per UTC regs? Inputs on this?
 
It does depend on where you are, but is not legal in most states AFAIK. To be able to sell utilities you need to meet guidelines set by public services commission, and unless you are doing so on a larger scale is likely not worth the expenses you will have just to be legal.

There are ways of being reimbursed for utility expenses, but sending a customer, tenant, etc. an itemized bill with a rate and kilowatt hours consumed is not the way to go about it, should the wrong agency discover that is what is happening, they will look hard at it to make sure you are not "selling power", and may still give you a hard time even if your intent was only collecting reimbursement and not to profit.
 
Is it true or false that submetering of power with purpose of creating your own charges for poer is illegal? My recolection is that our power companies in Washington state will not allow it per UTC regs? Inputs on this?

I think most states have some sort of law stating that only a utility can sell electricity That being said, I doubt that the intent of those laws is to prevent sub metering, besides one could argue they are not selling, just getting reimbursed. Just today I asked an inspector and instructor in MA and he said no problem. I have done, and seen it done in Rhode Island many times. There is your answer for a few New England states anyway.....
 
In at least some states the prohibition on submetering is in the rental code rather than any utility code.
That makes it clear that either the tenant pays a flat monthly fee or they but their power directly from POCO with POCO metering on their individual dwelling service.

Tapatalk!
 
I think most states have some sort of law stating that only a utility can sell electricity That being said, I doubt that the intent of those laws is to prevent sub metering, besides one could argue they are not selling, just getting reimbursed. Just today I asked an inspector and instructor in MA and he said no problem. I have done, and seen it done in Rhode Island many times. There is your answer for a few New England states anyway.....

In WV you can not sell power if you are not a public utility. That includes reimbursement.
 
Local rules prevail.

Here in MA we can 'sub meter' with revenue grade meters but the person doing the sub-metering cannot add to the cost.

In other words if you are a landlord with 6 tenants but only one power company meter you could install six revenue grade sub meters to divide up the charges to each pennant but you can't add a percentage to the KWH cost and make money doing so.
 
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I think most states have some sort of law stating that only a utility can sell electricity That being said, I doubt that the intent of those laws is to prevent sub metering, besides one could argue they are not selling, just getting reimbursed. Just today I asked an inspector and instructor in MA and he said no problem. I have done, and seen it done in Rhode Island many times. There is your answer for a few New England states anyway.....
Your electrical inspector can verify if the meter(s) are installed to electrical codes. He likely has no idea (or any authority in the sale of energy) of the details of the energy sales regulations.

Reimbursement is generally allowed - how to go about it may be tricky. A rent fee that includes utilities in the fee is often acceptable. A rent fee and a separate utility fee may not be acceptable - you generally need to make sure you include enough for utilities in the rent fee to cover those expenses if going that route. Many maybe get away with doing it wrong, until some tenant doesn't like something and turns them in.

Making a profit on resale energy is generally not allowed without becoming a licensed or otherwise approved energy retailer. You would at very least collect applicable taxes and other fees on the energy that is sold, and may need to meet other delivery requirements, weights and measures requirements with your metering devices, you may need to be able to guarantee performance levels, etc., just like all the legal POCO's do.
 
Your electrical inspector can verify if the meter(s) are installed to electrical codes. He likely has no idea (or any authority in the sale of energy) of the details of the energy sales regulations.

Reimbursement is generally allowed - how to go about it may be tricky. A rent fee that includes utilities in the fee is often acceptable. A rent fee and a separate utility fee may not be acceptable - you generally need to make sure you include enough for utilities in the rent fee to cover those expenses if going that route. Many maybe get away with doing it wrong, until some tenant doesn't like something and turns them in.

Making a profit on resale energy is generally not allowed without becoming a licensed or otherwise approved energy retailer. You would at very least collect applicable taxes and other fees on the energy that is sold, and may need to meet other delivery requirements, weights and measures requirements with your metering devices, you may need to be able to guarantee performance levels, etc., just like all the legal POCO's do.

Sure, sounds reasonable, but I still bet most jurisdictions dont have the specific wording, case law, precedents, nor give a damn about sub metering. If the electrical inspector is fine with it who else would care? Sure a tenant with a bone to pick and nothing better to do could call the public service commission and find someone there who also has nothing better to do, do research, hire a lawyer etc - everything you can think of has happened at least 23 times. Heck, look at me: I should be working on invoices to collect that $10,000 that I am paying 20% interest on but instead I am arguing hypotheticals about sub metering ;)
 
Sure, sounds reasonable, but I still bet most jurisdictions dont have the specific wording, case law, precedents, nor give a damn about sub metering. If the electrical inspector is fine with it who else would care? Sure a tenant with a bone to pick and nothing better to do could call the public service commission and find someone there who also has nothing better to do, do research, hire a lawyer etc - everything you can think of has happened at least 23 times. Heck, look at me: I should be working on invoices to collect that $10,000 that I am paying 20% interest on but instead I am arguing hypotheticals about sub metering ;)

My point was that it is not the electrical inspectors job to police the selling of electricity, his job is to ensure the installation meets installation codes. We have brought up regulations here that are not part of his responsibility. This would be a little like having a police officer trying to enforce electrical codes - sure he is law enforcement, but this is law he has no authority to enforce. He could contact the proper authority though and turn the problem over to them, and only get involved should that situation get physical or violent.

An EI could come into a plant for an inspection that happens to be manufacturing controlled substances and have no idea if they are doing it legally or not, that is not his department. Just because he passes the electrical installation doesn't mean they are legal with their controlled substance operation either.
 
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Originally Posted by electrofelon

Sure, sounds reasonable, but I still bet most jurisdictions dont have the specific wording, case law, precedents, nor give a damn about sub metering.


I think you are very mistaken



You named those that would care. It is a bigger deal than you seem to think.
I agree with Bob here. The EI is not from the particular jurisdiction that will give a damn, in most cases they are not going to be the tattle tales to get the proper authority involved even if they do suspect something wrong.

But should the proper authority become aware of something wrong you can almost bet they will respond according to their regulations and procedures.
 
My point was that it is not the electrical inspectors job to police the selling of electricity, his job is to ensure the installation meets installation codes. We have brought up regulations here that are not part of his responsibility. This would be a little like having a police officer trying to enforce electrical codes - sure he is law enforcement, but this is law he has no authority to enforce. He could contact the proper authority though and turn the problem over to them, and only get involved should that situation get physical or violent.

I agree. However generally an electrical inspector probably knows if it is accepted practice. Someone can take the EI's opinion/judgement or research it with Utility commission, their call.


I think you are very mistaken

You are entitled to think that, its a (mostly) free country. Do you have any evidence of specific wording in laws, formal interpretations, or case law that the intent of a "must be a utility to sell power" law applies to sub metering? Also note that i did say "most" in that statement. Feel free to replace "most" with a softer adjective, or completely disagree if you wish. My main point is just that I dont think a "must me a utility to sell power" law necessarily includes sub metering.
 
Good to know, thanks for that. I will be doing a project in MA where they may want sub metering........

Most places you can measure energy for your own information, you just can't sell it without proper energy retailer status. Similar would apply for natural gas, LP, motor fuels.

If you are a landlord and decide a tenant uses approximately $1200 energy usage annually you are ok with charging them $100 additional per month in their rent to cover that expense. You can not itemize how many kWhr was used in August and multiply it by a rate and place that result on an itemized bill as an energy cost. To do so you would need to be an authorized utility that is able to sell electrical energy, and would need to submit applicable taxes and other fees associated with that service just like the other utilities need to do.

They may not find everyone that breaks this law, but they likely do not let them go once they find out either. All it takes is an unhappy tenant to turn them in if they figure out it is illegal.
 
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