Meters & subpanels over gas. What's done in your area?

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Frustrated707

Member
Location
Northern california
Occupation
Healthcare
brycenesbitt said:
Utility Bulletin: TD-7001M-B010 Publication Date: 12/01/2022 Effective Date: 12/01/2022
Was what you quoted. ONLY good for retrofits ONLY for single family homes.

But please tell more stories. A group of us are meeting with the regulatory team that wrote TD-7001M-B010, meeting on May 16 2025. We'd love to know more about all the incidents and fires that lead to these rules, especially for retrofits. Never say San Bruno.
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I hope I’m allowed to be on this forum. Frustrated PGE customer here trying to switch out an old zinsco panel on home we purchased with a panel of same amps. We are being blocked by this section of the greenbook and told our only option is to trench across the road to move our panel far enough from the gas meter. This will cost us 20-30k!

How did this meeting go? We have nearly exhausted every option. Our last is to have insurance company get involved to demand replacement.
 
We are allowing this thread, it is not a "How To DIY" question.
 
Frustrated707 said:
I hope I’m allowed to be on this forum. Frustrated PGE customer here trying to switch out an old zinsco panel on home we purchased with a panel of same amps. We are being blocked by this section of the greenbook and told our only option is to trench across the road to move our panel far enough from the gas meter. This will cost us 20-30k!

How did this meeting go? We have nearly exhausted every option. Our last is to have insurance company get involved to demand replacement.
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I had a customer with a similar issue and they solved it to my surprise by cancelling gas service, they got a rebate on a energy efficient heatpump and got a nice induction range.
 
tortuga said:
I had a customer with a similar issue and they solved it to my surprise by cancelling gas service, they got a rebate on a energy efficient heatpump and got a nice induction range.
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I like that solution!! Never seen the electric over gas combination described in my part of Ohio, but shutting off the gas to moot the issue seems an elegant way of dealing with the problem (assuming, of course, that you don't have to instead spend $15k to have the yard dug up and the plumbing removed).
 
ModbusMan said:
I like that solution!! Never seen the electric over gas combination described in my part of Ohio, but shutting off the gas to moot the issue seems an elegant way of dealing with the problem (assuming, of course, that you don't have to instead spend $15k to have the yard dug up and the plumbing removed).
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I have considered this! Because we are looking at ~30k to just move and replace the panel for something safer with similar amps. Add 5k extra if we bump up to 200amps, which is what we would prefer to do but either way it going to cost us. It’s so frustrating because we are trying to do the right thing to replace our zinsco panel, but the hot zone messes it all up. I’m hoping this rule will be modified to what it previously was, but doubtful.
 
That is standard. I work with PG&E a lot on making panel replacements work with the green book regulations.

PG&E is one of the most hated organizations in California right now, right up there with the coastal commission and CARB, but they do have to cover their, uh, bases, especially after blowing up a town. 😳 So they are very inflexible.

I have one coming up where we will probably move the panel around the corner. I’m surprised that there is no option on your site to move it over/around a corner.

Are you in Humboldt by chance?
 
Frustrated707 said:
I have considered this!
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How many gas appliances do you have?
I am not sure how the rebates work in CA I think a few forum members here like @mtnelect are pretty up on them.

TECH Public Reporting Single Family Incentives

Single family heat pump incentives are available to participating contractors who electrify water heaters and HVAC units for their customers. Learn more about eligible projects and reservations.
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The neighborhood I live in now has no gas no option for gas and at first I really wanted to get a propane range, as I have always cooked on gas, but I got used to cooking on electric. Some foodies I work for say electric ovens are better than gas more temp control.
 
Frustrated707 said:
It’s so frustrating because we are trying to do the right thing to replace our zinsco panel, but the hot zone messes it all up. I’m hoping this rule will be modified to what it previously was, but doubtful.
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Could always ask (pray?) for a variance... we did that when adding output breakers to a pair of 1750kW generators that were about 2in short on clearance to the door. AHJ agreed with us that adding breakers but only having 34in between it and the door was better overall than leaving them without breakers entirely.
 
It is interesting thing I find locally is that it seems the gas installers of old seemed to be oblivious to the electrical issue they created by placing the gas meter in an existing meter/panel location (electric is usually installed before the gas).
 
ModbusMan said:
Could always ask (pray?) for a variance... we did that when adding output breakers to a pair of 1750kW generators that were about 2in short on clearance to the door. AHJ agreed with us that adding breakers but only having 34in between it and the door was better overall than leaving them without breakers entirely.
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Variance from the code inspector is different than variance from a utility company from what their installation rules may be, which I believe is the problem the OP is having. They can plain and simple refuse to energize your service or turn your gas on (whichever applies) even if it passes the city/county/state inspection if you don't follow their demands.
 
kwired said:
Variance from the code inspector is different than variance from a utility company from what their installation rules may be, which I believe is the problem the OP is having. They can plain and simple refuse to energize your service or turn your gas on (whichever applies) even if it passes the city/county/state inspection if you don't follow their demands.
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Yep, but that's why you ask. As my HS football coach said when asking out a girl, "Worst that can happen is they say no."
 
Barbqranch said:
Is it possible to move the gas meter?
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The OP mentions "trench across the road" a photo would be helpful.
I think the PG&E requirements around gas meters are no breakers within 3' of the meter but I could be wrong.
Probably more economical to move the gas either way.
The funny thing is this is outdoors and I could set my BBQ grill right next to the gas meter.
 
12” either side of the outside edge of the gas meter, (for existing), to a height of 10’ above the meter, and a radius of 36” from the vent in all directions.
 
The NEC claims it's not a design manual so why is it telling a home owner that they must use a generator of a certain size when it's an elective item in the first place. If the chosen generator won't work it's not a safety issue. They lost some groceries and are uncomfortable.
 
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