Min Separation of Cat6 Cable in EMT to Other Current Carrying Conductors in EMT

[JFletcher]

In our Job scopes we state “Conduits caring communication circuits running parallel to power carrying conduits shall maintain a min of 12” spacing. Conduits caring communication circuits running perpendicular to power carrying conduits shall maintain a min of 2” spacing.” But every now and then we have some people who just tie wrap to the 480vac 1200a pipe line and does sometimes cause issues.

We also require all industrial Ethernet to be 600vac rated. We have had issues with Meters and VFDs.

Welcome to the forum. idk that 12" is necessary, but comm wire cannot be strapped to conduit (300.11(B))

 

[Ravenvalor]

In our Job scopes we state “Conduits caring communication circuits running parallel to power carrying conduits shall maintain a min of 12” spacing. Conduits caring communication circuits running perpendicular to power carrying conduits shall maintain a min of 2” spacing.” But every now and then we have some people who just tie wrap to the 480vac 1200a pipe line and does sometimes cause issues.

We also require all industrial Ethernet to be 600vac rated. We have had issues with Meters and VFDs.

Hello Macbeth,

This is a great thread that is helping me make an outstanding network installation. Thanks to you and the others who have contributed to it.

I am quoting an installation of 22 - security cameras and about 7,000 feet of cat5e ethernet cable in an industrial facility. My experience level is average for cat5 cable installations. I have been installing cat5 since it came out on the market but usually only a couple hundred feet at a time and mostly in residential and commercial applications. There are two things that I am concerned about with my installation now.

The first is the 600vac cable that you recommend. Do you believe that 600-vac cable is necessary for security cameras? The cameras are high resolution and sell on Amazon for about $150 each. Also where may I find this 600vac cable in 1,000' boxes?

My second concern is bends. Are there any pulleys that will allow me to safely make a turn of up to 7 - cables at one turn in my route? My thought is to install pulleys at every turn in order to keep from having a man on a lift at each turn when pulling the cable. If there are pulleys like this on the market how many should I use in one pull? Or, how many turns should I make in 1 - pull? Depending on the pulley, the length of run, the number of cables I may find a scenario where I can only make 1 - turn per pull in order to avoid applying too much pressure on the cable.

Thanks for the help.....

 

[JFletcher]

Hello Macbeth,

This is a great thread that is helping me make an outstanding network installation. Thanks to you and the others who have contributed to it.

I am quoting an installation of 22 - security cameras and about 7,000 feet of cat5e ethernet cable in an industrial facility. My experience level is average for cat5 cable installations. I have been installing cat5 since it came out on the market but usually only a couple hundred feet at a time and mostly in residential and commercial applications. There are two things that I am concerned about with my installation now.

The first is the 600vac cable that you recommend. Do you believe that 600-vac cable is necessary for security cameras? The cameras are high resolution and sell on Amazon for about $150 each. Also where may I find this 600vac cable in 1,000' boxes?

My second concern is bends. Are there any pulleys that will allow me to safely make a turn of up to 7 - cables at one turn in my route? My thought is to install pulleys at every turn in order to keep from having a man on a lift at each turn when pulling the cable. If there are pulleys like this on the market how many should I use in one pull? Or, how many turns should I make in 1 - pull? Depending on the pulley, the length of run, the number of cables I may find a scenario where I can only make 1 - turn per pull in order to avoid applying too much pressure on the cable.

Thanks for the help.....

There are pulleys like this tho its pretty pricey:

https://www.blackbox.com/store/us/Detail.aspx/Cable-Corner-Roller/CCR1

You could probably make your own rollers out of common things. 2"PVC over 1 1/4" PVC, dolly wheel with some sides added to it, etc. I've never used em but would if the pull were to require multiple manlifts.

 

[Ravenvalor]

There are pulleys like this tho its pretty pricey:

https://www.blackbox.com/store/us/Detail.aspx/Cable-Corner-Roller/CCR1

You could probably make your own rollers out of common things. 2"PVC over 1 1/4" PVC, dolly wheel with some sides added to it, etc. I've never used em but would if the pull were to require multiple manlifts.

Great ideas....

I am thinking about using a J-Hook cable organizer that looks like a strap but the sides flare out. My thinking is to use several of these organizers and space them about 6" apart in an arc to form a 24" diameter 90. I am thinking about using these on my straight runs also and spacing them every 5' apart. I might install all of these cable organizers throughout the building first and then pull the cable just like pulling cable through conduit. The trick is going to be not putting more than 25 - pounds of pressure on the cat5e while not having a second man with a lift to help at the turns.

http://www.cableorganizer.com/erico/caddy-cat-links/

Thanks...

 

[JFletcher]

Thank you for the compliment, and you're welcome for the ideas.

Generally on long pulls, I will get pull string from the bucket, get my dead straight path around/over/under all obstructions, then tie it off, and put up all my hangers around the pull string. If it's steel or concrete, I'd use Hilti cable hangers:

https://www.us.hilti.com/direct-fastening/electrical-&-mechanical-fastenings/r1683

for drywall/wood, I just use D-rings. and like you say, use the hangers just like conduit. Once the cable is pulled, there is no going back a second time to secure it. For 7 cables max, you could use the smallest D-rings or the Hilti hangers. Lube the wire with Clearglide and you can pull 20+ cables at once 200' by yourself. I like your arc idea - I've used a similar method to build in service loops in IDF/MDF.

The Hilti hangers have a self-closing feature which is quite nice. and 5' intervals would meet EIA/TIA spec as well.

If you need either (D-rings or the Hilti hangers), send me a PM - I've quite a few of both I'd like to get rid of, and I can beat any price you'd find on them.

I dont know if you'll be able to see this pic:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/32712057@N06/3390821717/in/dateposted-public/

if you cant, it's a short piece of PVC on a corner to keep cables from being pinched on a steel corner bead on drywall

eta: Hilti hooks come in 3 sizes; here is a better pic:



the small hangers can be hooked together to form a 'gull wing' - the bottom hanger is 2 of these hooked together

 

[JFletcher]

and ravenvalor, what you can do instead of building rollers or buying them,or needing a 2nd manlift, is have one guy on the ground pull cable to a corner, pulling slack out for the next guy. Measure off what you need, walk it out, then, using a continuous pull string, have the next guy pull, while the ground guy makes sure it doesnt get hung on anything. I assume you'll be working 15-25' off the ground - once the slack is out of the first corner guy's hands, the last 10-20' should pull w/o getting bound up. A 12' A frame would help out a bit with that. If there are more corners to pull, leave a loop hanging at each corner that you can reach from a ladder or the ground - that way, each pull is basically straight, and you wouldnt need those 100$ pulleys at all.

I hope I described that fairly well....

 

[Ravenvalor]

Thank you for the compliment, and you're welcome for the ideas.

Generally on long pulls, I will get pull string from the bucket, get my dead straight path around/over/under all obstructions, then tie it off, and put up all my hangers around the pull string. If it's steel or concrete, I'd use Hilti cable hangers:

https://www.us.hilti.com/direct-fastening/electrical-&-mechanical-fastenings/r1683

for drywall/wood, I just use D-rings. and like you say, use the hangers just like conduit. Once the cable is pulled, there is no going back a second time to secure it. For 7 cables max, you could use the smallest D-rings or the Hilti hangers. Lube the wire with Clearglide and you can pull 20+ cables at once 200' by yourself. I like your arc idea - I've used a similar method to build in service loops in IDF/MDF.

The Hilti hangers have a self-closing feature which is quite nice. and 5' intervals would meet EIA/TIA spec as well.

If you need either (D-rings or the Hilti hangers), send me a PM - I've quite a few of both I'd like to get rid of, and I can beat any price you'd find on them.

I dont know if you'll be able to see this pic:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/32712057@N06/3390821717/in/dateposted-public/

if you cant, it's a short piece of PVC on a corner to keep cables from being pinched on a steel corner bead on drywall

eta: Hilti hooks come in 3 sizes; here is a better pic:

View attachment 14716

the small hangers can be hooked together to form a 'gull wing' - the bottom hanger is 2 of these hooked together

and ravenvalor, what you can do instead of building rollers or buying them,or needing a 2nd manlift, is have one guy on the ground pull cable to a corner, pulling slack out for the next guy. Measure off what you need, walk it out, then, using a continuous pull string, have the next guy pull, while the ground guy makes sure it doesnt get hung on anything. I assume you'll be working 15-25' off the ground - once the slack is out of the first corner guy's hands, the last 10-20' should pull w/o getting bound up. A 12' A frame would help out a bit with that. If there are more corners to pull, leave a loop hanging at each corner that you can reach from a ladder or the ground - that way, each pull is basically straight, and you wouldnt need those 100$ pulleys at all.

I hope I described that fairly well....

Wow J this is awesome thanks so much. Last night before going to bed I was reminiscing about how as a kid we'd all wake up very early on easter morning and find our individual easter baskets filled with candy on the kitchen table waiting for us to devour the candy. And here I am sitting at the kitchen table opening up my laptop and finding this tremendous wealth of information waiting for me to devour. Thanks for sharing this with me and I saw that you did this at 3AM in the morning just like the easter bunny. You're the bomb dude.....

Thanks,

 

[Ravenvalor]

Hello J,

Thanks for giving me all of that great advice on cat5e cabling. I was really stuck in the muck of ignorance and was up the creek without a paddle until I read your post this morning.


I did see your pvc picture on flicker and it looks like a great idea. I may be able to put it through a piece of 1/4" threaded rod so it will spin. Some of the walls that I am going through are 18"+ thick so I am going to try to utilize the ones that are already drilled open (no firewalls involved). I can probably do like you did on your flicker photos and put bushings on pvc and run the cables through the pvc in order to help negotiate that.

For the spacing of the straps, is 7.5' too far apart? if so, I may have to install kindorf in order to have something to strap to. There is a place to attach to nearby but the area is crowded with warehouse storage material so I was trying to keep all of the runs in the open aisle areas.

Some of these runs are 100 meters long with complicated turns and twists. There I will install an injector and go another 100 meters to the camera. I like your suggestion to pull the string first in order to install the Jhooks and the Dhooks. I guess that at every turn I should plan on having a man there to help negotiate the turn.

Would it be ok to drop a cable at each camera along the way to the last camera or is this going to cause too much tension on the cables?

Thanks so much...

 

[hoye0017]

Hi All,
I came across this thread and thought I'd provide a BICSI reference.

In BICSI's ITSIMM, 3-43, table 3.3:

Separation guidelines for power cabling and telecommunications cabling:

"Power lines enclosed in a grounded metal pathway (or equivalent sheilding) in proximity to a grounded metal conduit pathway" Minimum Separation is specified as 6 inches.

To me, this reads as if power cables in a conduit are next to telecomm cables in another conduit, The minimum separation between the 2 should be 6 inches.