Missing Service Neutral... Huge Voltage Fluctuations

[gadfly56]

Unless a line crew made wrong connections, and damages occur immediately afterward they seem to get by calling it an act of God type of situation. Most cases you may have to take it to court to get a claim, and it may cost you more then it is worth to do that. If damages are high enough in cost, leave it up to your insurance to pursue collecting damages from the POCO, if that is what they want to do.

Don't most tariffs contain some "duty to maintain" clause to hold the utility's feet to the fire? Breach of that duty should require compensation to any injured parties.

 

[kwired]

Don't most tariffs contain some "duty to maintain" clause to hold the utility's feet to the fire? Breach of that duty should require compensation to any injured parties.

Maybe so, but how much damage before it is worth pursuing compensation. They are not likely to just pay every claim no questions asked. Technical jargon will discourage many consumers from trying to pursue the relatively minor losses.

 

[growler]

Maybe so, but how much damage before it is worth pursuing compensation. They are not likely to just pay every claim no questions asked. Technical jargon will discourage many consumers from trying to pursue the relatively minor losses.

The legitimate damage claims that I have seen were paid for by the utilities and no one had to go to court.

But customers don't really want to get into it for say a $200.00 service call if there were no other damages. I think it would probably cost the utilities just as much to send one of their trucks and crews out there to check things out. So I would think that once they know that you have been troubleshooting one of their problems they should allow the customer a certain amount of credit with no other questions asked ( maybe a copy of the electrician's invoice ).

 

[kwired]

The legitimate damage claims that I have seen were paid for by the utilities and no one had to go to court.

But customers don't really want to get into it for say a $200.00 service call if there were no other damages. I think it would probably cost the utilities just as much to send one of their trucks and crews out there to check things out. So I would think that once they know that you have been troubleshooting one of their problems they should allow the customer a certain amount of credit with no other questions asked ( maybe a copy of the electrician's invoice ).

That might be understandable, if you had a qualified person come and diagnose problems.

 

[JFletcher]

Thanks everyone for there comments, suggestions, advice and help. It was indeed my neutral on the utility side of my meter. They hooked up a temp wire until a more permenant repair can be made. I will finally sleep easy tonight. I would have never thought this would be such a common failure (until all the reading i have done) and thougt is was probably my fault since i was rewiring my house at the time it happens. Had just finished a sub panel at the exact same time it failed (when i turned breaker back on). It was dark and the guys running the wire didnt know where the point of failure was and im still curious to find out. Thanks again and goodnight to all.

Those are the most maddening types of failures. I was replacing fused AC discos last time (a few months ago) this happened; turn on the breaker, it instantly kicks back like there is a dead short there. I spent an hour rechecking my wire, everything, then I pull the breaker and swap in another 40A 2p. It holds. I then check the breaker I've removed; it snaps back in my hand (off to on then off again), not connected to the wires or buss. Breaker just happened to fail while I was there. 35 years that breaker has been okay, I touch it and it decides to die. Unreal.

You can rest assured that such simultaneous failures are one in a million. See ya in 2026 LOL.

 

[gadfly56]

Those are the most maddening types of failures. I was replacing fused AC discos last time (a few months ago) this happened; turn on the breaker, it instantly kicks back like there is a dead short there. I spent an hour rechecking my wire, everything, then I pull the breaker and swap in another 40A 2p. It holds. I then check the breaker I've removed; it snaps back in my hand (off to on then off again), not connected to the wires or buss. Breaker just happened to fail while I was there. 35 years that breaker has been okay, I touch it and it decides to die. Unreal.

You can rest assured that such simultaneous failures are one in a million. See ya in 2026 LOL.

I wish I had a dollar for every time the service techs at my last employer did a simple inspection and the customer came back 2-3 days later claiming they must have "broken" something. You have to go out, of course, but the service department made it very clear that if we weren't responsible it was on the customer's nickel. I'd say something less that 1% of the time was the inspection process the culprit, and even then it was usually a marginal component that needed replacing anyway.

 

[meternerd]

Hmmm, in my 40 plus years I have found more lost neutrals on the POCO connections at the weatherhead than in a panel, probably 10 to 1.

Roger

Well, I guess it may be a perspective deal. As a POCO guy, we usually show up first, because everyone always blames the utility. Since we are not authorized to test "downstream" of the service disconnect, we seldom hear about the final solution to the problem if we find nothing wrong. We are also not allowed to do "repairs" to customer equipment, such as missing or disconnected main bonding jumpers, loose or corroded neutral connections past the meter enclosure and numerous cases of "power diversion", where some industrious previous owner jury rigged a metering bypass and set up the new owners with a death trap. We also found that some older methods of utility installed service drop to weather head connectors were prone to failure. A prime example is the "insulink" compression connectors. They frequently failed due to corrosion that was completely invisible because the insulating barrel hid the problem. We (Alaska and Tahoe area in California)) finally went to two bolt side by side connectors and insulating tape. Could have been the temperature extremes, though. I guess the bottom line is....if you are damaging equipment, get it fixed ASAP. The utility WILL reimburse the customer, buy only if it is a verified utility problem. A lobby full of blown up electronics after a storm is not a guarantee of a new new 60" Smart HD TV. "Acts of God" do happen. Trees in wire, broken poles, services torn loose from house, lightning, etc. Our responsibility for those kinds of things usually stopped at the edge of the right of way. Hey...I've got nothing to gain sticking up for power companies. I'm RETIRED and every day is Saturday....

Just sayin.....only my experience....

 

[meternerd]

I agree it doesn't take long for an experienced electrician to know there is bad neutral and to figure out it's on the utility side.

When you call the utilities and let them know that you have checked out the problem and it's on their side they normally get there pretty quick.

If you figure out the cost of a service call and the possible problems with not getting the neutral repaired promptly it' not such a bad investment.

This is just my opinion but I think when you find a bad neutral on the utility side the utility should pay for the service call.

Don't know about all utilities, but that's exactly what we did. No charge even if the callout was an after hours double-time two hour minimum cost. Only problem is that often we go out, test the service, find nothing wrong, and then the customer is back with a fried stereo or TV saying it was fine before we got there. The dust and bird crap on it is usually a clue about what is really going on. I have always worked for CO-op and REA companies, so being non-profit, every cost we have that is bogus adds to the rates of every other member. So we try to be pretty cautious. We don't have deep pockets, just more shallow ones.....