Misuse of Equipment

[joe tedesco]

Is this product properly installed, and is it even listed?

The mounting holes seem to show that it is not properly installed, and it is definitely overcrowding the area that some believe allows it in that space using the fill calculation of not more that 40% mentioned in Article 312 for a Cabinet.

This is a Panelboard mounted in a Cabinet.

 

[Cavie]

That device is not listed to be installed in a Sq D panel. Not legal. SQ D allows nothing to be inistall ed inside their panels except SQ D products.

 

[iwire]

That device is not listed to be installed in a Sq D panel. Not legal. SQ D allows nothing to be inistall ed inside their panels except SQ D products.

I do not think Square D can say anything about what is installed inside the cabinet and its almost imposable to install anything 'inside' a panel. (See Panelboard and Cabinet in Article 100)

In this case the panel and this device are installed in a cabinet.

The Square D panel can be installed in any cabinet meeting the requirements in Part II of Article 314, only non-metallic cabinets are required to be listed.

Even in damp or wet locations cabinets are only required to be weather proof, not listed.

 

[frizbeedog]

The least of my concerns

The least of my concerns

Is this product properly installed, and is it even listed?

It's just a sloppy mess. Flopping around loose and sloppy and crowded is not properly installed. Can't even get to that terminal bar behind it through all the weeds. I love working in panels like that.

 

[iwire]

It's just a sloppy mess. Flopping around loose and sloppy and crowded is not properly installed.

But is it a violation?

In my opinion there is no violation here.

The unit does not appear to have UL listing so 110.3(B) does not apply to it.

If Square D says "SQ D allows nothing to be install ed inside their panels except SQ D products" thats a problem as Square D does not make wire, wire nuts, connectors tape etc.

 

[wbalsam1]

But is it a violation?

In my opinion there is no violation here.

I agree

The unit does not appear to have UL listing so 110.3(B) does not apply to it.

I wasn't aware that 110.3(B) was intended exclusively for UL. I thought it included other nationally recognized testing labs, too.

 

[Cavie]

I do not think Square D can say anything about what is installed inside the cabinet and its almost imposable to install anything 'inside' a panel. (See Panelboard and Cabinet in Article 100)

In this case the panel and this device are installed in a cabinet.

The Square D panel can be installed in any cabinet meeting the requirements in Part II of Article 314, only non-metallic cabinets are required to be listed.

Even in damp or wet locations cabinets are only required to be weather proof, not listed.

Call it a cardboard box if you want to. The picture is of a SQ D PANEL. You can see the labels on the side. Adding non listed equipment to the iniside of a listed panel makes it a violation. ..............IMHO....:smile:

 

[iwire]

I wasn't aware that 110.3(B) was intended exclusively for UL. I thought it included other nationally recognized testing labs, too.

You are right, it does apply other listings.

That said I don' see any listing on that equipment so 110.3(B) is still a non-issue.

Lacking a listing all it needs is Approval by the AHJ.

 

[frizbeedog]

But is it a violation?

In my opinion there is no violation here.

Let's make it one. :grin:

 

[iwire]

Let's make it one. :grin:

:grin:

Well there is 'neat and workmen like' but that is a cop out in my opinion.

 

[Cavie]

I was told by a SQ D Rep that installing an external Photo Cell on a wp panel is a violation on the listing. They require you to install the photocell in a wp box attachet to the panel with an approved connector (offset nipple etc.). Why? I don't know.... Third Base.

 

[chris kennedy]

What is a "Phase coupler" and why would you want to in the first place?

Thanks
Chris Dumas

 

[wbalsam1]

Let's make it one. :grin:

This may not be a violation of anything per se, but I don't particularly care for the way that UL's name is used here, without a listing or labeling, just a reference to a standard of safety. This is the warranty Pulseworx uses for the phase coupler posted by the OP::smile:

"This warranty is not applicable to, and PCS makes no warranty whatsoever with respect to, any Product not installed and operated in accordance with the National Electric Code (NEC), the Standards for Safety of Underwriters Laboratories, Inc. (UL), Standards for the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) or, in Canada, the Canadian Standards Association (CSA). Nor is this warranty applicable to any Product which has not been installed and operated in accordance with PCS' specifications and connection diagrams or Product which has been subjected to abnormal operating conditions as specified in PCS published literature."​

 

[frizbeedog]

But is it a violation?

In my opinion there is no violation here.

The unit does not appear to have UL listing so 110.3(B) does not apply to it.

So I'm looking at the pdf attachment for this thing and they use terms like suitable box to place the device in.

And the drawing they provide seems to indicated an enclosure/box seprate from the panel.

What was the manufacturer's intent?

 

[SmithBuilt]

SQ D allows nothing to be installed inside their panels except SQ D products.

Magnusson-Moss Warranty
Act prevents manufacturers from making warranties
contingent upon the use of their replacement parts, as
long as the third-party part is safe.

http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Markets/Electrical/Products/CircuitProtection/ResidentialCircuitBreakers/ClassifiedReplacementCircuitBreakers/index.htm
See the brochure on the right side.

 

[iwire]

I was told by a SQ D Rep that installing an external Photo Cell on a wp panel is a violation on the listing.

IMO he was mistaken.

 

[jim dungar]

I was told by a SQ D Rep that installing an external Photo Cell on a wp panel is a violation on the listing. They require you to install the photocell in a wp box attachet to the panel with an approved connector (offset nipple etc.). Why? I don't know.... Third Base.

Your rep is wrong. Ask for it in writing. I have never seen any instruction from Square D that restricts what you can mount in or on their cabinets.

A listing says the factory built the product to a specific set of standards. what you do in the field cannot change how the device got its listing. However, what you do in the field can make the device unsuitable for its intended and listed purpose. Field cutting a 2" conduit entry using a "hole saw" is probably acceptable, field cutting a 2" oval conduit entry using a pair of tin snips is probably not acceptable. The acceptability lies with the AHJ.

 

[iwire]

So I'm looking at the pdf attachment for this thing and they use terms like suitable box to place the device in.

And the drawing they provide seems to indicated an enclosure/box seprate from the panel.

What was the manufacturer's intent?

If the unit is not listed there is no NEC requirement to follow the manufacturers recommendations beyond voltage and current ratings.

 

[iwire]

What is a "Phase coupler" and why would you want to in the first place?

It couples phases, gee I figured you would know that. :grin:



Chris it is often used by systems that communicate over the AC lines, like X-10 devices etc.

 

[BackInTheHabit]

Is this product properly installed, and is it even listed?

The mounting holes seem to show that it is not properly installed, and it is definitely overcrowding the area that some believe allows it in that space using the fill calculation of not more that 40% mentioned in Article 312 for a Cabinet.

This is a Panelboard mounted in a Cabinet.

What about NEC 2008 312.8 ?

I read it to say that the installation is a violation. Regardless wether or not it is listed or labeled for such, does this section ban such use?