Mobile Homes

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straps

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Presently working in 4 mobile homes bolted together and being used as a church building .
Can nm cable be run thru the ceiling for lighting of stage and hihats over the different tables to be controlled from a sound stage area. Or does it need to be mc cable. Upon initial investigation of my 1999 code book article 550 I say yes what say you folks.
 
Re: Mobile Homes

If it has a stage it is considered a performance area and NM cable can not be used. See 520.1 in the 2002 NEC.
Here are the wiring methods allowed
520.5 Wiring Methods.
(A) General. The fixed wiring method shall be metal raceways, nonmetallic raceways encased in at least 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete, Type MI cable, MC cable, or AC cable containing an insulated equipment grounding conductor sized in accordance with Table 250.122.

Even though they are mobile homes its an Art 520 application. Check with your AHJ to be sure.

[ September 13, 2004, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: tom baker ]
 
Re: Mobile Homes

Tom not to question you but to learn something. I always have treated a church as Places of Assembly and used article 518 which only requires Conduit if designed or intended for the assembly of 100 or more persons. and as for the stage 518 refers us to 520 which in 520.5(C) allows NM where the building is not fire-rated construction. and I cannot see trailers as being fire rated? As a whole I could not see this assembly of trailers being allowed to be used as a church? The implications of what would happen if a fire did break out. :p

I agree all wiring should be in a race-way and I would entertain the idea of even AFCI to allow a building to be used in this manner.
 
Re: Mobile Homes

I guess I am asking about the same thing as Wayne. I was told by an instructor in code class a few years ago that a building designed for 100 or for 300 could be wired with NM if not required to be of fire rated construction per 518.4(B) and 520.5(C)
 
Re: Mobile Homes

I agree but it's not per 518.4(B) and 520.5(C) that determines the fire rating. 518.4(B) and 520.5(C) state if not required by the building code to be fire rated.
 
Re: Mobile Homes

Clarification: This is a 4 segment Manufactured Home type building that still has the wheels on it . It is about 20 feet wide by about 80 foot long with 3 each 200 amp services coming into it. However technically it was originally permited by the local city as a church building. It is used as a teenagers ministry meeting area 1 night a week. It is used as a "Video Cafe" service meeting place on sunday for 2.5 hours balance of the time it is not used at all.With piped in video from the main church.
Inside the structure it has 5 different subpanels 4 only are useing 40a dp cb for air handlers balance of the panels are empty.
The structure has 16 each 2X4 foot 4 bulball florescent troffer fixtures.Oulets are 6 foot on center per art 550 Nice growing church just went thru a major construction project and its paid off. We are doing this for 1 service.
I want to clean this place up throwout the extension cords etc and make it nice and safe.
With high hats 5 per row for 6-8 rows all controllable from the sound stage sound board area.1 row of 5 90 watt lights controllable by 1 600 watt dimmer.
I plan to fish nm cable thru the two foot high ceiling area which is accesable via a drop ceiling trying to keep costs to a minium we are donateing our labor and if god keeps helping our internet business grow we will be donateing he materials as well.

Anyway in my 1999 nec art 550 550-10.f. Staes""THIS SHALL NOT PROHIBIT THE USE OF TYPE NM OR TYPE SE CABLE BETWEEN THE BRANCH CIRCUIT OVER-PROTECTIVE DEVICE AND A JUNCTION BOX OR RANGE OR DRYER RECEPTICLE.
Furthermore art 550-10.(a) non-metalic boxes. Non-metalic boxes shall be permitted only with non-metalic cable or non-metalic raceways.
then further on 550-10.(b) talks about protecting nm cable
then art 550-10.(c) talks about type nm cable running thru attics.With all that I feel safe in saying yes nm cable in this instance is legal.This is a towable structure which still has its wheels attached to the axles even thou it is off the ground on a concrete support do to being in a high hurricane area in Florida.
One last thought this structure is labeled as a manufactured Home and meets all specifications of ART550-2. MANUFATURED HOME IT MEETS ALL PORTIONS OF THAT PARAGRAPH.This is why I feel I am legal. Sorry about the lack of clarification on my original post.
 
Re: Mobile Homes

Hurk27 any facility with a performance area becomes a Art 520 application. so a church may be some Art 518 and some art 520, and if you look there is just a slight difference in the wiring methods allowed. What I am not sure of is can the mobile homes be used for this application? I don't see that the Art 550 rules could be used.

[ September 14, 2004, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: tom baker ]
 
Re: Mobile Homes

Tom Baker:

Why cant the article 550 rules apply . This is a manufactured home towed to the church site and permitted by the city 5 years ago. It was originally permitted that way while the main church was being built. That has been its purpose since day 1 minute 1 so tell me why we cannot use art 550 rules please. The only exception is when in the stage area and then art 518 would apply but only for the stage area.Otherwise I feel totally legal. If anyone thinks I might not be correct please post your ideas with art references please. By the way maxium capacity is 90 people all sitting at portable tables. There are 4 fixed exits signed with exit illuinated signs.
 
Re: Mobile Homes

The scope of 520 spells it out. :)

520.1 Scope.
This article covers all buildings or that part of a building or structure, indoor or outdoor, designed or used for presentation, dramatic, musical, motion picture projection, or similar purposes and to specific audience seating areas within motion picture or television studios.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Mobile Homes

Straps go for it.Intent is great This past June was afforded the opportunity to go to Oklahoma and get an indian church wired and running in 5 days.It was unreal 2,100sq ft building was up in 9.5 hours.The slab was there.We all built it and as walls were stood they were wired it was dried in as we wired it then rock hung .On a reservation no inspections.Day 3 trimming behind the tapers,Day 4
did underground. day 5 A/C`S running,lights burning.I had a blast.
 
Re: Mobile Homes

Straps,
First of all several things are not clear here. You never indicated if the municipality has adopted any building codes.
These mobile homes where designed and HUD approved as Dwelling units. To use these structures as any thing else normally would take a change of occupancy permit from your building official.
If the building code official signed off on a change of occupancy permit and allowed this to be classified as a church. He should have considered that each rec. should have a calculated load of 180 VA per rec. and the fire rating of the building. If the building Code official did not require any type of fire rated construction I can?t see why one would require any wiring method that would be require in a fire rated construction.
You said the building was utilized as a church day 1 minute 1. Could it be this was only approved as a temporary structure during construction of the perminant building?

I through this in just for discussion if this I a building covered in Art 550 then 550.10 applies. Notice it says ?not more than one?, A feeder (one), or a (one) permanently installed feeder.

II. Mobile and Manufactured Homes
550.10 Power Supply.
(A) Feeder. The power supply to the mobile home shall be a feeder assembly consisting of not more than one listed 50-ampere mobile home power-supply cord with an integrally molded or securely attached plug cap or a permanently installed feeder.
 
Re: Mobile Homes

Thank's tom
Straps:
Clarification: This is a 4 segment Manufactured Home type building that still has the wheels on it .
Click to expand...
Once a manufactured home has underwent renovation and has be modified from it's original purpose. The red seal that HUD requires on the home is no longer valid. Then this building will fall under local laws and codes. 550 is no longer in the picture as it is no longer a HUD authorized home. and can not be called a manufactured home any more.

For more info go to www.hud.com and look up the manufactured housing laws. and you will have the same info as me.

Added to point right to manufactured housing codes:
Manufactured housing Codes 24 CFR PART 3280

For Electrical requirments are in 3280.800

[ September 14, 2004, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
 
Re: Mobile Homes

Her we go guys reference to art 550-3. Quote per batum in my city the 199 code is the one that applies. Within it section550-3. state very clearly 'WHEREEVER THE REQUIREMENTS OF OTHER ARTICLES OF THIS CODE AND ARTICLE 550 DIFFER, THE REQUIREMENTS OF ARTICLE 550 SHALL APPLY.
This says to me that 550 over-rides all other articles period.
This structure is coded and taged the exct same as the portable classrooms located all over the state of florida and the hud tagging states meeting place. pure and simple.
electricman 2 the manufactured building has a capacity of 90 people stamped on the id tag.The building is not fire rated because personnel are not allowed to stay in it overnight.

Tom Baker sorry sir the above reference overrides your statement because the article you state covers tv studios and projection rooms this is neither.
iwire article 550 does apply as it supercedies all other articles period it is very specific.

wayne 3 thanks bud I dont antiipate an situation where you have walked but I was trying to get the benefit of others.

david: Yes the city of 25,000 has adopted building and electrical codes. The building codes are the south florida building code which calls this ttype of building a manufactured building . The electric code adopted by the city is the 1999nec
There is no such thing as what you state what it does state as paragraph (a) is it speaks about nm boxes and the next paragraph talks about nm cable.
In addition 550-10 is all about wiring methods and materials period.

Now on to hurk 27 This manufactured building has not undergone renovation it stands today the same way it was delivered the only chages are what I am about to do.The metal tag on the unit specifies meeting building then it has a comma and states hud approved meeting structure/manufactured home. These things are in every town in Florida cause people are moving from overtaxed over regulated communities up north so we cant build new schools fast enogh so the South Florida Building Code has made these structures legal as article 550 structures. Period
Hurk27 I will check out the aforementioned web site. But I feel that you may be wrong based on what I see in every town south of Broward County Line. Appreciate accurate article references please many thanks I hope no hard feelings.
 
Re: Mobile Homes

One last message the building was delivered with nm cable all over the place from the panels out. The main service is on the outside of the overlap of 2 sections it is 2 seperate 200 amp 4 wire services this city requires 4 wire services when the feeder pipe is pvc.
 
Re: Mobile Homes

WoW!
I have never heard of a HUD approved "meeting place"

I'll definitely take a back seat to this conversation as I was totally thinking they used a dwelling type manufactured house to make up this church?

Sorry about the mix up.
 
Re: Mobile Homes

__________________________________________________
It is about 20 feet wide by about 80 foot long with 3 each 200 amp services coming into it.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
One last message the building was delivered with nm cable all over the place from the panels out. The main service is on the outside of the overlap of 2 sections it is 2 seperate 200 amp 4 wire services this city requires 4 wire services when the feeder pipe is pvc.
__________________________________________________

50-4. General Requirements
(a) Mobile Home Not Intended as a Dwelling Unit.
, shall not be required to meet the provisions of this article pertaining to the number or capacity of circuits required. It shall, however, meet all other applicable requirements of this article if provided with an electrical installation intended to be energized from a 120-volt or 120/240-volt ac power supply system.

B. Mobile Homes
550-5. Power Supply
(a) Feeder. The power supply to the mobile home shall be a feeder assembly consisting of not more than one listed 50-ampere mobile home power-supply cord with an integrally molded or securely attached plug cap, or a permanently installed feeder.
(b) Exception No. 2: Manufactured homes constructed in accordance with Section 550-23(b).
 
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