what's wrong with this thread (and what's wrong with monday morning quarterbacking in general), is that this entire conversation has existed for the most part in a vacuum. We don't really know what the OP's boss was thinking when he ordered his electricians to screw up this grid. I can think of scenarios that have not been discussed that would not be outside the realm of possibilities. For example, it is possible that the GC was being a jerk and leaned on him to do it, and it might just be that he told the GC that he wouldn't be responsible for any problems, and it might just be that he was hoping that the GC would stop his guys when he saw how screwed up the ceiling was getting. On the other hand, it might be that he is an idiot. But, since we will never know, who cares ? All I can say for sure is, I am happy that the OP did what he wanted to do, and hopefully he is also happy with the outcome.
Modifing ceiling grid to install light fixtures
- Thread starter Ibbreezn
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
I have done what Rick described more than once.
And I also have to say that I agree with Scott and Bob. The guy should have stood up for what he thought and he will now have to live with that decision.
But, I also don't believe for a minute that if this whole thing had gone south that his boss would have stood up and took the blame for it. I had basically the same senerio one time, then my boss stood there and chewed my butt out in front of the customer and then apologized once we got in the truck saying he was just covering his butt. Yeah great, but now I'm the one that looked like the idiot when I was the one that didn't want to do it in the first place.
And I also have to say that I agree with Scott and Bob. The guy should have stood up for what he thought and he will now have to live with that decision.
But, I also don't believe for a minute that if this whole thing had gone south that his boss would have stood up and took the blame for it. I had basically the same senerio one time, then my boss stood there and chewed my butt out in front of the customer and then apologized once we got in the truck saying he was just covering his butt. Yeah great, but now I'm the one that looked like the idiot when I was the one that didn't want to do it in the first place.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
A nice raise would have helped.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
A nice raise would have helped.
Wouldn't have hurt:grin: I don't get mad very often, but that one just smoked my bacon.
Microwatt
Senior Member
- Location
- North Dakota
I am currently dealing with the same thing. Except I am the customer and now we can change lamps or ballasts in about 40 fixtures. Do you need to take off 3/8" from all four sides or a total of 3/8", in both the east and west, and north and south directions?
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
Rick, welcome to the forum. Wish it could be under better circumstances.
Like the entire ceiling collapsing on a room full of people? It's happened before. One *minor* design change. I bet those guys wish they could have that one back.
Only you can make the call, and you did. I can't tell you if you were right or wrong, or if you have any legal recourse.
Like the entire ceiling collapsing on a room full of people? It's happened before. One *minor* design change. I bet those guys wish they could have that one back.
Only you can make the call, and you did. I can't tell you if you were right or wrong, or if you have any legal recourse.
ultramegabob
Senior Member
- Location
- Indiana
I think Jfletchers point was that someone made the call to alter the original design of a project and had a catastrophic failure....
the call in that case was made by a structural engineer. the walkway was supported by allthread, and because it only came standard in certain lengths the contractor asked if they could use smaller lengths. It was run by the structural engineer. Unfortunately, the connection method was flawed and the engineer overlooked this (instead of coupling the allthread, it was embedded in the upper and lower portion of the slab, exceeding the shearing strength of the concrete). this is hardly similar to hacking the ceiling without any approval from anyone. My only point being, the example is a bad one.
ultramegabob
Senior Member
- Location
- Indiana
I wonder if the original poster is ever going to return and join in on the discussion
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
Yes, that was my point.
I agree that I could have found an example more on point, scale, and structurally similar to an acoustic ceiling with bad engineering or after the fact (unapproved) field modifications.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
The MGM Grand fire in Las Vegas is a good example of field modifications that went bad.
here is an article about the fire:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM_Grand_Hotel_Las_Vegas_hotel_fire
I don't see how the fire was a result of something similar to the OP, but if you know something different please share it.
Here's an example of a ceiling that killed, and the reason was that the contractor who provided the anchor epoxy provided false information:
==exerpts are from road and bridges article link below:
http://www.roadsbridges.com/articles/TheBig.pdf
==exerpts are from road and bridges article link below:
http://www.roadsbridges.com/articles/TheBig.pdf
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
There was a lot more to the damage done than just the fire. It was found that many of the fire smoke dampers were screwed open, because of the heat and other things they kept closing. They found many people dead on the upper floors and could not figure out why until they realized that they had died of carbon monoxide poisioning.
From the article you posted: Due to faulty smoke dampers within ventilation duct work, the toxic fumes circulated throughout the hotel's air circulation system, accelerating the spread of the poisonous air.
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wow. now that is criminal hackwork.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
While the link you posted was a pretty good one, you need to read the actual fire report. This is a prime example of this was bad which made this worse which made it all worse.
It starts with the cord rubbing, then once the fire got going the hot gases ignited the wall coverings that were not as fire retardent as they should have been. Then you have the shafts that didn't have the proper draft stopping and the dampers not operating. It just went on and on. I would assume that a lot of people lost their jobs over that whole SNAFU.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
Yeah, the "unions".
My family is from Nevada and trust me, big money rules that state. I have a feeling that the inspectors on those large jobs have no control over what is happening.I know that trimming the ceiling grid may not be the same thing, but you never know. After the '94 earthquake, we found many thing's that had not been installed properly that caused massive failures. Now we found many things that were installed correctly, that failed also, but the one's that were installed incorrectly may not have failed if they were installed right.
SegDog
Member
- Location
- Philadelphia
One killed by falling luminaire
One killed by falling luminaire
A little more than thirty years ago, a chandelier killed someone at Pulsations, a club in Concordville, PA. This example is closer to the OPs.
I have a guilty pleasure writing about moron bosses. I tell my kids that no matter where you're at in the chain, there's always a boss and often a moron.
Once upon a time, I was parking the company van at the shop, and I saw the boss headed my way. Something too stupid to write about happened, but it involved one of the bosses pet peeves, and I was getting blamed unjustly. He started yapping at me, and I interrupted him by saying that I was quitting and that he could keep my ?!@$ing check. At least, I wasn't stranded in Boston.
Since then I've worked for a number of sociopaths. Now I use my own vehicle because my latest boss talks to me like I'm his wife, or some other abused person in his life. I told him that I was going to use my own vehicle because I wasn't getting stuck doing BS unpaid runs, and that when I quit I would immediately be free to leave. Amazingly, his attitude and demeanor has improved. He realizes that I was far more reliable, dependable and flexible than the hopheads that he's worked with in the past.
Of course, not everyone has the freedom to do what I did, or the OP. It sucks when jobs are tight.
Dog
One killed by falling luminaire
A little more than thirty years ago, a chandelier killed someone at Pulsations, a club in Concordville, PA. This example is closer to the OPs.
I have a guilty pleasure writing about moron bosses. I tell my kids that no matter where you're at in the chain, there's always a boss and often a moron.
Once upon a time, I was parking the company van at the shop, and I saw the boss headed my way. Something too stupid to write about happened, but it involved one of the bosses pet peeves, and I was getting blamed unjustly. He started yapping at me, and I interrupted him by saying that I was quitting and that he could keep my ?!@$ing check. At least, I wasn't stranded in Boston.
Since then I've worked for a number of sociopaths. Now I use my own vehicle because my latest boss talks to me like I'm his wife, or some other abused person in his life. I told him that I was going to use my own vehicle because I wasn't getting stuck doing BS unpaid runs, and that when I quit I would immediately be free to leave. Amazingly, his attitude and demeanor has improved. He realizes that I was far more reliable, dependable and flexible than the hopheads that he's worked with in the past.
Of course, not everyone has the freedom to do what I did, or the OP. It sucks when jobs are tight.
Dog
- Status