Modify ATS to Manual transfer only?

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

Who in their right mind would design a system that puts a fuse in the V sensing circuit!?!? That's why in these parts we use the
term "Junk-er-Rac" in place of Generac

I don’t know. I don’t own Generac. Nor am I affiliated with them in any way, other than as an Authorized Service Dealer.

Im also an installer for a dealer that sells Generac. Kohler, and Cummins.

I don’t drink corporate Koolaid. I make money.

 

[kwired]

Who in their right mind would design a system that puts a fuse in the V sensing circuit!?!? That's why in these parts we use the
term "Junk-er-Rac" in place of Generac

How often is this fuse going to blow unless there is physical abuse of the protected conductors or maybe something contacts a terminal?
Is a situation it should never be overloaded unless there is a failure in the supplied equipment. This is also assuming the proper fuse was installed to begin with.

 

[hillbilly1]

Since it’s a DIY grade generator, it’s probably to protect from mis-wiring by the DIY’er.

 

[hillbilly1]

I don’t know. I don’t own Generac. Nor am I affiliated with them in any way, other than as an Authorized Service Dealer.

Im also an installer for a dealer that sells Generac. Kohler, and Cummins.

I don’t drink corporate Koolaid. I make money.

As my old boss said, as long as I make money, I’m technology neutral!

 

[ATSman]

It is totally contrary to the purpose of an emergency backup system which is there to keep the load energized at all costs. Even to the point of itself burning up. That is why by code an ats is exempt from any OCP in the essential control system. Russelectric and others use fuses but only in the ind lights and non-essential ckts. Name one other company that employs fuses in the operational circuit of an emergency backup system.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

How often is this fuse going to blow unless there is physical abuse of the protected conductors or maybe something contacts a terminal?
Is a situation it should never be overloaded unless there is a failure in the supplied equipment. This is also assuming the proper fuse was installed to begin with.

This one was a generator with 4 ATS. It was a complete hack job, they paralleled all the utility sense wires, did not install the transfer relay as required by Generac, had lamp cord feeding some of the ATSs, had an added on battery charge circuit that was connected to the utility lug, so during power loss it wouldn't charge the battery. He'd had a stream of "electricians" out there to try and fix it, and they couldn't figure out why two ATS would transfer over, and two would randomly not.

I re-wired the whole system, set it up as master/slaves, installed the relay, and when I powered it up, one leg of the utility sense wasn't reading, and I found the blown fuse. Apparently it happens a lot when they are wired improperly like that.

As an aside, if you ever find a system wired wrong like that, be careful, because you can shut off the main panel at a unit, and if the utility sense wires are paralleled like that, it'll backfeed the building.

 

[tortuga]

Can't they just turn off the genny at its control panel, and turn it to on or auto when needed?

I wish, but then someone could just set it back to automatic with the touch of a button.
And then I'd still have to comply with 702.4(A)(2) (a) or (b) which I can't be bothered with.
The way 702.4(A)(2) is written in the 2023 is:
If the optional standby system is capable of 'automatic transfer' either
(a) The generator must be capable of the full load, calculated per article 220, that is being automatically transferred .
or
(b) A article 750 "Energy management system" (EMS) must be installed

Even if I wanted to bother with (b) I don't think Generac's "Smart management modules" are actually a UL listed article 750 EMS

 

[hillbilly1]

I wish, but then someone could just set it back to automatic with the touch of a button.
And then I'd still have to comply with 702.4(A)(2) (a) or (b) which I can't be bothered with.
The way 702.4(A)(2) is written in the 2023 is:
If the optional standby system is capable of 'automatic transfer' either
(a) The generator must be capable of the full load, calculated per article 220, that is being automatically transferred .
or
(b) A article 750 "Energy management system" (EMS) must be installed

Even if I wanted to bother with (b) I don't think Generac's "Smart management modules" are actually a UL listed article 750 EMS

I was going to bypass Generac’s auto/off/on switch on a commercial generator because Generac’s controller was too slow to respond to a power outage, and covert it to two wire start using the on position, but the switch was soldered onto a circuit board. We ended up yanking it out and putting in a Kohler because the store opened in a week, and the firemarshall wouldn’t pass it.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

I was going to bypass Generac’s auto/off/on switch on a commercial generator because Generac’s controller was too slow to respond to a power outage, and covert it to two wire start using the on position, but the switch was soldered onto a circuit board. We ended up yanking it out and putting in a Kohler because the store opened in a week, and the firemarshall wouldn’t pass it.

Generac has a 2-wire start kit for their units.

Also, utility sense loss time is adjustable in the Dealer Menu.

 

[hillbilly1]

Generac has a 2-wire start kit for their units.

Also, utility sense loss time is adjustable in the Dealer Menu.

This one had the factory two wire kit, but their controller would not start the generator until after a 5 second delay. Generac said they could change to an industrial controller that didn’t have the delay for a couple thousand. That generator is still sitting in the warehouse after 15 or more years. Nobody wants a 480 volt three phase generator that doesn’t meet life safety requirements, and can’t be converted to a lower voltage. Most everybody else can be retapped.

 

[CoolWill]

This one had the factory two wire kit, but their controller would not start the generator until after a 5 second delay. Generac said they could change to an industrial controller that didn’t have the delay for a couple thousand. That generator is still sitting in the warehouse after 15 or more years. Nobody wants a 480 volt three phase generator that doesn’t meet life safety requirements, and can’t be converted to a lower voltage. Most everybody else can be retapped.

I'll take it off your hands for $100.

 

[hillbilly1]

I'll take it off your hands for $100.

The boss decided to use it at his aircraft hanger, I was supposed to put it in with a transformer before I retired, but didn’t get to it. It’s still sitting there with a new transferswitch I bought for it. The existing service was a six switch rule, so I would have installed a new single main.