Modular Meter Center

[augie47]

Is there a MLO Modular Meter Center on the market that meets the 230.71 2023 requirements ?

(Most of TN is still on 2017 so it has only recently become an issue in a couple of jurisdictions that have adopted 2023and I just now investigating)

 

[david]

Is there a MLO Modular Meter Center on the market that meets the 230.71 2023 requirements ?

(Most of TN is still on 2017 so it has only recently become an issue in a couple of jurisdictions that have adopted 2023and I just now investigating)

Don't have the 2023 NEC is their a change allowing six throws of the hand in a single enclosure for services in 2023?

 

[curt swartz]

Not that I have seen. We still can't get the standard Class 320 residential panels that comply from the big 4 manufactures.

If manufactures were concerned about getting rid of existing inventory I would understand but since most equipment is 6 months to 1 year lead time there is no excuse for them not to build compliant equipment.

Luckily most inspectors don't understand the change or enforce it.

 

[TX+ MASTER#4544]

Don't have the 2023 NEC is their a change allowing six throws of the hand in a single enclosure for services in 2023?

2023 NEC
No. The up to six means of disconnect can no longer be mounted in a single enclosure 230.71 and (B) (1)(2)(3)(4). 230.40 and Exception No.1.
This is an electrical safety issue and is in conjunction with NFPA 70 E Electrical Safety in the Workplace.
TX+MASTER#4544

 

[electrofelon]

2023 NEC
No. The up to six means of disconnect can no longer be mounted in a single enclosure 230.71 and (B) (1)(2)(3)(4). 230.40 and Exception No.1.
This is an electrical safety issue and is in conjunction with NFPA 70 E Electrical Safety in the Workplace.
TX+MASTER#4544

Note the wording for (4), metering centers, is different and only required is a separate "compartment" for each service disconnect.

 

[david]

2023 NEC
No. The up to six means of disconnect can no longer be mounted in a single enclosure 230.71 and (B) (1)(2)(3)(4). 230.40 and Exception No.1.
This is an electrical safety issue and is in conjunction with NFPA 70 E Electrical Safety in the Workplace.
TX+MASTER#4544

In what way is it a safety issue? I thought it is still allowed for buildings supplied by a feeder?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Note the wording for (4), metering centers, is different and only required is a separate "compartment" for each service disconnect.

UL 67 has defined a "compartment" for this application as an "enclosure" that meets the requirements of UL 50 which is the product standard that covers junction boxes. There is no equipment that meets the 2023 code on the market that has more than two meters and two disconnects.
It is my understanding that there are no plans for any of the manufacturers to produce such equipment.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

In what way is it a safety issue? I thought it is still allowed for buildings supplied by a feeder?

Feeders are not covered by anything in Article 230. This thread is about the requirements in Article 230.
There is not the same safety issue with building supplied by a feeder because you can open the upstream feeder disconnect, unlike a service where you need the utility to open the upstream supply.

 

[electrofelon]

UL 67 has defined a "compartment" for this application as an "enclosure" that meets the requirements of UL 50 which is the product standard that covers junction boxes. There is no equipment that meets the 2023 code on the market that has more than two meters and two disconnects.
It is my understanding that there are no plans for any of the manufacturers to produce such equipment.

Thanks CMP's, outstanding work yet again. That cobbed together 6 meter service with individual meter sockets, bussed gutters and nippled disconnects is so convenient and going to look fantastic.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Thanks CMP's, outstanding work yet again. That cobbed together 6 meter service with individual meter sockets, bussed gutters and nippled disconnects is so convenient and going to look fantastic.

The cleanest look is just to install the service disconnect on the line side of the meter center, or the install the type of meter center in 230.71(B)(5).

There is no reason why the manufacturers could not design a meter center with compartments that comply with UL 50, but they have chosen not to....at least so far.

 

[david]

Feeders are not covered by anything in Article 230. This thread is about the requirements in Article 230.
There is not the same safety issue with building supplied by a feeder because you can open the upstream feeder disconnect, unlike a service where you need the utility to open the upstream supply.

So you can still use them for 230.82 apli action as in 240.82 (3) and (10).
With the same safety concerns, if the were still allowed to be used as service disconnects

 

[david]

So you can still use them for 230.82 apli action as in 240.82 (3) and (10).
With the same safety concerns, if the were still allowed to be used as service disconnects

I guess most will just by the main from the manufactures when installing gangable meter sockets, I am not sure what the up charge would be.

 

[electrofelon]

The cleanest look is just to install the service disconnect on the line side of the meter center, or the install the type of meter center in 230.71(B)(5).

There is no reason why the manufacturers could not design a meter center with compartments that comply with UL 50, but they have chosen not to....at least so far.

POCOS around here do not allow cold sequenced metering for 1-6 disconnects. Not sure if they intend to modify their rules or not.

 

[david]

Feeders are not covered by anything in Article 230. This thread is about the requirements in Article 230.

The cleanest look is just to install the service disconnect

on the line side of the meter center,

are you talking about load side metering and feeder disconnects, or are you talking about something else

or the install the type of meter center in 230.71(B)(5).

There is no reason why the manufacturers could not design a meter center with compartments that comply with UL 50, but they have chosen not to....at least so far.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

So you can still use them for 230.82 apli action as in 240.82 (3) and (10).
With the same safety concerns, if the were still allowed to be used as service disconnects

You can't use them for any service disconnect covered by Article 230.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

POCOS around here do not allow cold sequenced metering for 1-6 disconnects. Not sure if they intend to modify their rules or not.

Our utility service installation manual does not say one way or the other. The local utility engineer said it would be ok if the utility locked the line side disconnect in the on position.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

are you talking about load side metering and feeder disconnects, or are you talking about something else

Yes with both the separate disconnect on the line side of the meter center, and the meter center with a built in main disconnect, the meters would be on the line side of the service disconnect.

 

[TX+ MASTER#4544]

In what way is it a safety issue? I thought it is still allowed for buildings supplied by a feeder?

If 6 means of disconnects are confined into a single enclosure (a main lug only assembly) the incident energy level would be extremely dangerous for an electrician to safely perform any maintenance or adjustment, servicing, trouble shooting or for whatever reason.

The clearing time for a fault that may suddenly occur while the electrician is very close to the line side source, such as a result of a cross phase or phase to ground, the amount of incident energy could result in a instant fatality.

In addition to the incident energy that is released and resulting in a fatality, that much incident energy will destroy perhaps all of the electrical equipment and all of the conductors feeding downstream.

By placing the services in individual enclosures will reduce the incident energy level to a more safer level assuming PPE is considered before removing the cover or opening the service disconnect or testing the voltage.

NFPA 70E Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace, makes it mandatory! It's the law nation wide.

Here in the great state of Texas, when you renew your electrical license you are required to hear from your presenter at least a quarter hour of NFPA Electrical Safety in order to renew your license. And, really, that's not enough time for safety.

TX+MASTER#4544

 

[TX+ MASTER#4544]

Don't have the 2023 NEC is their a change allowing six throws of the hand in a single enclosure for services in 2023?

2020 and 2023 NEC
No. No single enclosure for 6 disconnects. Must be 6 unless it conforms to 230.71 (B) or the exceptions.

No MLOs either unless you feed it with an OCPD on the line side.

TX+MASTER#4544

 

[electrofelon]

If 6 means of disconnects are confined into a single enclosure (a main lug only assembly) the incident energy level would be extremely dangerous for an electrician to safely perform any maintenance or adjustment, servicing, trouble shooting or for whatever reason.

The clearing time for a fault that may suddenly occur while the electrician is very close to the line side source, such as a result of a cross phase or phase to ground, the amount of incident energy could result in a instant fatality.

In addition to the incident energy that is released and resulting in a fatality, that much incident energy will destroy perhaps all of the electrical equipment and all of the conductors feeding downstream.

By placing the services in individual enclosures will reduce the incident energy level to a more safer level assuming PPE is considered before removing the cover or opening the service disconnect or testing the voltage.

NFPA 70E Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace, makes it mandatory! It's the law nation wide.

Here in the great state of Texas, when you renew your electrical license you are required to hear from your presenter at least a quarter hour of NFPA Electrical Safety in order to renew your license. And, really, that's not enough time for safety.

TX+MASTER#4544

No you are wrong on this, its not about incident energy, that makes no sense whatsoever.