Modular Meter Center

[david]

2020 and 2023 NEC
No. No single enclosure for 6 disconnects. Must be 6 unless it conforms to 230.71 (B) or the exceptions.

No MLOs either unless you feed it with an OCPD on the line side.

TX+MASTER#4544

Planned outages are rare, and if you have the privilege of scheduling one your on a really tight schedule.

Fishers Big wheel, Hills department stores, K mart, super Kmarts, Walmart, Dad's dog foods, Hospitals,

The list of big fish can get long, managers and district managers.

Your the electrician who works for the contractor who swims in the lake with corporations with the big money.

The manager calls the district manager who in return calls your boss.

Turns out it's 400 amp 480 volt bolt on breaker in one of there distribution cabinets. You drove the company van 3,6 or 10 Hrs to get there. It would be nice if you could tell the store manager he/she needs to schedule a Planned outages.

The managers have district managers who have corporate managers who went on a retreat with your boss just last month.

If the code panel looks at this as a safety issue than all distrubution cabinets would have to be looked at.

How much floor space are architects going to give up to accommodate electrical equipment

 

[jaggedben]

Thanks CMP's, outstanding work yet again. That cobbed together 6 meter service with individual meter sockets, bussed gutters and nippled disconnects is so convenient and going to look fantastic.

And the Polaris splices packed into the trough will be safer, too.

 

[electrofelon]

And the Polaris splices packed into the trough will be safer, too.

Can't use those either now, remember?

 

[jaggedben]

Can't use those either now, remember?

Some are listed for it now. But yeah, that's another hurdle.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Planned outages are rare, and if you have the privilege of scheduling one your on a really tight schedule.

Fishers Big wheel, Hills department stores, K mart, super Kmarts, Walmart, Dad's dog foods, Hospitals,

The list of big fish can get long, managers and district managers.

Your the electrician who works for the contractor who swims in the lake with corporations with the big money.

The manager calls the district manager who in return calls your boss.

Turns out it's 400 amp 480 volt bolt on breaker in one of there distribution cabinets. You drove the company van 3,6 or 10 Hrs to get there. It would be nice if you could tell the store manager he/she needs to schedule a Planned outages.

The managers have district managers who have corporate managers who went on a retreat with your boss just last month.

If the code panel looks at this as a safety issue than all distrubution cabinets would have to be looked at.

How much floor space are architects going to give up to accommodate electrical equipment

So you are saying the owners are willing to accept a very long unplanned outage because they refused to give you a short planned outage. There are very few reasons where OSHA permits an employee to work on an energized circuit. Cost or management refusal to permit a planned outage is not on the list of conditions that would justify energized work.

The code position is that only the service disconnects need the additional protection as the only way to get the line side de-energized is to have the utility open the service circuit. All electrical equipment on the load side of the service disconnects can be put in a de-energized condition locally without requiring action by the utility.

 

[david]

So you are saying the owners are willing to accept a very long unplanned outage because they refused to give you a short planned outage. There are very few reasons where OSHA permits an employee to work on an energized circuit. Cost or management refusal to permit a planned outage is not on the list of conditions that would justify energized work.

The code position is that only the service disconnects need the additional protection as the only way to get the line side de-energized is to have the utility open the service circuit. All electrical equipment on the load side of the service disconnects can be put in a de-energized condition locally without requiring action by the utility.

What I am saying is if you arive and a planned outage is the only safe remedy. It dosnt mater to corporate if you schedule with a utility or open the service disconnect both are going to be a local manager who runs it by corporate.
In the real world it's like driving with a safe comfort zone in Pittsburgh trafic. Your safe comfort zone becomes someone else's opertunity.

Distric managers just call someone else.
What I'm saying is you can put a switch ahead of a distrubution cabinet is one thing getting everyone on board with opening it is another.

In that way its the same safety issue at the service level or at the distrubution level.

I don't see the diferance, really never had a problem scheduling an outage with a utility

The problem is scheduling an outage with management

 

[don_resqcapt19]

What I am saying is if you arive and a planned outage is the only safe remedy. It dosnt mater to corporate if you schedule with a utility or open the service disconnect both are going to be a local manager who runs it by corporate.
In the real world it's like driving with a safe comfort zone in Pittsburgh trafic. Your safe comfort zone becomes someone else's opertunity.

Distric managers just call someone else.
What I'm saying is you can put a switch ahead of a distrubution cabinet is one thing getting everyone on board with opening it is another.

In that way its the same safety issue at the service level or at the distrubution level.

I don't see the diferance, really never had a problem scheduling an outage with a utility

The problem is scheduling an outage with management

That is exactly what is accomplished by the new service disconnect rules.

 

[david]

That is exactly what is accomplished by the new service disconnect rules.

That's true, and in time we will find out if the percentages of what needs repaired shift away from it being the service equipment itself needing the repair.

 

[hillbilly1]

So you are saying the owners are willing to accept a very long unplanned outage because they refused to give you a short planned outage. There are very few reasons where OSHA permits an employee to work on an energized circuit. Cost or management refusal to permit a planned outage is not on the list of conditions that would justify energized work.

The code position is that only the service disconnects need the additional protection as the only way to get the line side de-energized is to have the utility open the service circuit. All electrical equipment on the load side of the service disconnects can be put in a de-energized condition locally without requiring action by the utility.

I think it’s a tax or insurance thing, planned maintenance would not be a “Loss of revenue” for tax or insurance purposes, as where an insured failure would cover the losses.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I think it’s a tax or insurance thing, planned maintenance would not be a “Loss of revenue” for tax or insurance purposes, as where an insured failure would cover the losses.

The cost of an unplanned outage can be in the millions of dollars and even more if there were injuries. and give the current state of the supply system could take many months to repair.
I would not be surprised if the insurance company denied claims from any loss resulting from unjustified energized work.

I am aware of a number of large contractors that will walk away from any customer insisting on energized work.

I am also aware of clients that will escort a contractor who does energized work off their property and cancel any existing projects with that contractor.

 

[hillbilly1]

The cost of an unplanned outage can be in the millions of dollars and even more if there were injuries. and give the current state of the supply system could take many months to repair.
I would not be surprised if the insurance company denied claims from any loss resulting from unjustified energized work.

I am aware of a number of large contractors that will walk away from any customer insisting on energized work.

I am also aware of clients that will escort a contractor who does energized work off their property and cancel any existing projects with that contractor.

Not saying they want it done live, saying they will not fix it until it does blow up, then the insurance company pays to fix it instead.

 

[david]

The cost of an unplanned outage can be in the millions of dollars and even more if there were injuries. and give the current state of the supply system could take many months to repair.
I would not be surprised if the insurance company denied claims from any loss resulting from unjustified energized work.

I am aware of a number of large contractors that will walk away from any customer insisting on energized work.

I am also aware of clients that will escort a contractor who does energized work off their property and cancel any existing projects with that contractor.

Here in PA all across the state on service up grades and repairs at least for the ones not exceeding 400 amp, the service drop connection is done by the contractor not the utility.

You can schedule a disconnect and reconnect with the utility if your willing to have your costumer pay the utility extra for it.

Some of the electricians not willing to do the reconnect will still do the disconnect themselves.

95% of that live work is done by the electrical contractor

Not advocating for it just observing the real world

 

[david]

Every line voltage meter pulled and reinstalled during trouble shooting is done by the electrician.

The fact is if you want to do electrical contracting work in this state you are going to do live work or your not going to be in business very long

Just the way it is here I guess it must be different in most other areas across the country

 

[augie47]

Got the answer to my OP + some

Thanks