More bath outlet questions, 210.52D

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77401 said:
In order to meet requirements of 210.52 I put one duplex GFCI centered between the two basins.
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Pass.

You could remove the GFCI duplex and install a single receptacle between the sinks and you would pass assuming the circuit was GFCI protected.
 
77401 said:
In order to meet requirements of 210.52 I put one duplex GFCI centered between the two basins.
....
Do you think I'll pass or fail?
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I think it will pass - in this particular situation.

The '02 NECH has a commentary of such an arrangement:
If the basins are in close proximity, one receptacle outlet installed between the two basins might satisfy this requirement.
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While the commentary is not enforceable, it is sensible here...but only your AHJ has the power to give your installation a
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or a
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celtic said:
I think it will pass - in this particular situation.

The '02 NECH has a commentary of such an arrangement:


While the commentary is not enforceable, it is sensible here...but only your AHJ has the power to give your installation a
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or a
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The reason one receptacle installed for two or more basins might or might not meet the NEC is not up to the AHJ.

If the one receptacle meets the requirements of placement and distance it is NEC compliant.

The NEC does not require an outlet for each basin if they are close enough together
 
iwire said:
The reason one receptacle installed for two or more basins might or might not meet the NEC is not up to the AHJ.

If the one receptacle meets the requirements of placement and distance it is NEC compliant.

The NEC does not require an outlet for each basin if they are close enough together
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2005 NEC said:
210.52D
Bathrooms.
In dwelling units, at least one receptacle outlet shall be installed in bathrooms within 900 mm (3 ft)
of the outside edge of each basin. The receptacle outlet shall be located on a wall or partition that is adjacent to the basin or basin countertop.
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What do you make of the word "each" there?
 
celtic said:
What do you make of the word "each" there?
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Only that there will be a receptacle withing 36" of each basin be it one basin or a 100 really small basins. ;)

Read your way the Handbook commentary would make no sense as an outlet would always be required for each basin there would be no 'might' about it.



 
77401 said:
I got one for y'all....
I'll know Monday or Tuesday when I get my final.
Situation is this...
Master bath, 2 basins, 10 inches between them & really 2 inches on the outside of them. (its a small area & design really should have had only one basin, but its a master bath)
In order to meet requirements of 210.52 I put one duplex GFCI centered between the two basins.
This was also for common sense, as if I were able to put two receptacles on the outside of the basins, there would literaly be no place to set any corded device on the counter.
Do you think I'll pass or fail?
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Yes one passes as long as it is within 36 inches to each.Most people do not want to cut the mirror but have seen it done often.
 
iwire said:
The reason one receptacle installed for two or more basins might or might not meet the NEC is not up to the AHJ.
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....are you saying the AHJs are always correct ;)
 
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A new exception permits the required bathroom receptacle outlet to be mounted on the basin cabinet. This exception provides an alternative location for the required bathroom receptacle outlet, especially where the walls are all mirrored.

(D) Bathrooms – Dwelling Unit. In dwelling units, not less than one 15 or 20A, 125V receptacle outlet must be installed within an arc measurement of 3 ft from the outside edge of each bathroom basin. The receptacle outlet must be located on a wall or partition that is adjacent to the basin counter surface. See 210.11(C)(3). Figure 210-14

Author’s Comment: One receptacle outlet could be located between two basins to meet the requirement, but only if the receptacle outlet is located within 3 ft of the outside edge of each basin. Figure 210-14

Author’s Comment: The bathroom receptacles must be GFCI protected [210.8(A)(1)].


Ex: The required bathroom receptacle can be installed on the face or side of the basin cabinet not more than 12 in. below the countertop surface. Figure 210-16
Courtesy of Mr. Holt Himself
 
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I don't know this for certain, but judging from the picture provided, the artist washes his hands in the toilet. Which is not terribly hygenic, IMO.
 
radiopet said:
Ex: The required bathroom receptacle can be installed on the face or side of the basin cabinet not more than 12 in. below the countertop surface. Figure 210-16
Courtesy of Mr. Holt Himself
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Figure 210-16 is a bit out of date, eh?

The 3' BELOW the rim doesn't jive with the 12" exception....
 
Oh a picture says a thousand words....

Now just for the sake of discussion, wouldn't any portion of a cabinet qualify as a 'partition'?

Which code can this comment be refferanced to:
"The required bathroom receptacle can be installed on the face or side of the basin cabinet not more than 12 in. below the countertop surface. (Figure 210-16) "

'cause I read the 2002 I dont see this requirement, is this part of the 2005 wording?
 
Thanks for clarifying that........

But what quantifies a partition? And what make it different from the wall, if say the oulet were within 3' on the wall, next to the cab, it would be OK. But within 3' on the cabinet, only a few inches from that other location it wouldn't, according to the 2005?





(Now back to that picture isn't that light switch too close to the tub?)
 
e57 said:
Thanks for clarifying that........

But what quantifies a partition? And what make it different from the wall, if say the oulet were within 3' on the wall, next to the cab, it would be OK. But within 3' on the cabinet, only a few inches from that other location it wouldn't, according to the 2005?





(Now back to that picture isn't that light switch too close to the tub?)
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The switch is fine where its at.
 
Did anybody see that there was two proposals in the 2008 cycle that would have solved this question ? They would have moved the exception wording into the main body of the text so that every part would have been restricted to 12 inches or less below the counter top.
2-224 Log #840 NEC-P02
2-226 Log #2963 NEC-P02

They were both rejected.

The panel statements were, "The exception is clear as currently stated. Deleting exceptions is not a "goal" where the exception can best communicate what is intended." and "The exception as stated, clearly conveys the intent and objective of the rule."

I didn't realize you needed to look to an exception to find "the intent and objective of the rule." I had always thought an exception was ..... uh ..... well ..... an exception to the rule.

David
 
dnem said:
I had always thought an exception was ..... uh ..... well ..... an exception to the rule.
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As a rule, that's true, but every rule has an exception, including that one.

"Everything I say is a lie." :eek:
 
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