More low-voltage licensing questions

[ryan_618]

Re: More low-voltage licensing questions

Originally posted by sparrott4:
Luke, when you're on the low voltage side, 25 amps at 12v and 300W is perfectly safe.You can hold both ends of that wire and barely feel it. It amazes me that electricians haven't been taught this.

Sparrott: Perhaps you could enlighten us idiots. How many amperes does it take to reach ventricular fibrilation? In other words, how many amperes until your heart stops?

 

[hbiss]

Re: More low-voltage licensing questions

Keep in mind that electric welders are low voltage also. These have no problem melting through steel but you can barely get a tingle if you contact both terminals.

It doesn't matter if the voltage is high and the current is low or the voltage is low and the current is high, watts are watts. The energy is available and consumed. A 30 watt lamp still draws 30 watts regardless of the voltage.

The lower the voltage the less potential there is for electrocution but that is only half the danger. The potential for overheated wiring, arcs and fire are still very real and this is what the NEC seeks to address.

Wayne also brings up a good point. If the transformer is not designed with proper barriers and isolation between the line and the low voltage there is the potential for line voltage to be present on the low voltage wiring.

-Hal

 

[sparrott4]

Re: More low-voltage licensing questions

We've gotten way off track with the purpose of this forum, my apologies to Mike Holt. This will be my last post.

I apologize if I've implied that electricians are idiots - I have nothing but respect for any trades person who has gone through the training and the time to get licensed - that takes somes brains for sure. Certainly most landscapers are not geniuses. I am neither a landscaper nor an electrician so perhaps I'm the most ignorant of all. I'm just trying to gather information and help people who want to do landscape lighting.

I came to the forum trying to sort out code issues and get a feel for the electricians point of view. Since I work daily with landscapers, I hear their concerns and now I've heard from electricians. I think I added a few too many comments and offended a few (apologies again).

Best wishes for all and thanks to Mike for having this forum.

The end.

 

[hurk27]

Re: More low-voltage licensing questions

I came to the forum trying to sort out code issues and get a feel for the electricians point of view. Since I work daily with landscapers

This is what we are here for. And this is a good subject to discuss as there are many out there that don't understand the danger's of electricity. and as has already been covered even low voltage can cause fires. I have seen many cars burn up from kids installing those high power audio amps. even though some run a #8 or #6 to the trunk they forget the most important item! A FUSE!

But I don't think that anyone around here was that offended, Of course I can only speak for my self but I don't hold anything against any one trying to learn and it sound's like this is what your trying to do so stick around and ask away I know I will try to answer as best as I can. who knows maybe I'll have to install your lights.Find there a great product. With a forum like this you can get allot of input to make you product even better and easier for us to install, and most of all SAFER. Just remember to keep an open mind and understand that we all have opinions. and that the NEC is just a code minimum. Going a little more never hurts. I could give you a list of the problems that I have encountered with LV landscape lighting. but so can most that is here on this forum. So keep asking.

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: More low-voltage licensing questions

Thanx, guys for the back-up.


C'mon sparrott4 :roll:

Originally posted by sparrott4:

Luke, when you're on the low voltage side, 25 amps at 12v and 300W is perfectly safe.
No way.

You can hold both ends of that wire and barely feel it.
Not me.
What do you think would happen if you were standing in a pool or hot tub and tried this?

It amazes me that electricians haven't been taught this.
Because it's not true.

The posts I'm reading here tell me two things: 1. Electricans have not been properly trained in low voltage systems,
I have, you have not.

and 2. If electricians want to take landscape lighting away from the landscapers then they had better plan on taking seminars and stepping up to the plate.
I've been to 20 hours of continuing education in the past year.
I never said what you are implying. I said that I think that the system should be inspected do to safety.

Landscape Lighting is a huge business now and landscapers are highly motivated to light the landscapes they design.
Then do the customer a service and hire someone QUALIFIED.

Every landscaper that we train becomes highly competent and responsible.
Not if the above is what you teach.
You never answered my question about proximity to a pool.

Honestly, you have not offended me. I can take whatever you throw at me.
But the problem that I see, is that you probably still do not see the potential hazards involved.

You asked for the ELECTRICIANS point of view for a balanced discussion.
Are you sure that you are the marketing director, or just another disgruntled landsceper looking to diss Qualified Electricians?

 

[tom baker]

Re: More low-voltage licensing questions

The NEC is very clear on what limited energy is, its a circuit that limits the energy to prevent fire or shock. Low voltage may not be limited energy, and once a "low voltage" system exceeds the limits in Art 725, then it becomes a chapter 3 wiring method.
In fact the NEC does not use the terms "low voltage", except in the trailer article. Landscape lighting is covered under Art 711. There is another low voltage system in Art 720.

 

[karlwayne]

Re: More low-voltage licensing questions

I was just wondering if maybe we couldn't get speciallty licenses for people just to install receptacles?

 

[hbiss]

Re: More low-voltage licensing questions

Every local jurisdiction and state is free to do anything they want in this respect. If people can convince them that such a license is in the public interest they can certainly create one.

-Hal

 

[bphgravity]

Re: More low-voltage licensing questions

Originally posted by hbiss:
..in the public interest..

Since when did a government entity actual do something "in the public interest"? Must be a new concept!!

 

[hbiss]

Re: More low-voltage licensing questions

Right, my mistake. I should have said "If people contribute enough $$$ to them they can certainly create one".

-Hal