Mounting Speakers in Suspended Ceiling

[mhudson]

Does anyone know of any NEC codes relating to how you are supposed to mount speakers in ceiling tile? For Example, are you required to secure the speakers to the T-frame of the suspended ceiling, or to the structure above? Is there any weight limit specified for this?

I know for luminary fixtures, they are supposed to be secured to the T-frame structure of the suspended ceiling by code.

Thank you for your help

 

[dezwitinc]

Whoever is suppling the speakers should be able to supply you with mounting brackets suitable for a drop ceiling.
They will keep the weight off the tile and provide secure mounting.

 

[smithacetech]

NEC, no. Local Building codes, maybe?

I would say the weight limit would be dependent on the ceiling tile rating. Either way, a saftey support would be a good idea.

 

[mhudson]

Actually I am an engineering working for a speaker manufacturer! I was hoping there were guidelines on the weight tile can hold so that we could eliminate the need for those supports. I see a lot of cameras, fire alarms, and security motion sensors mounted right to the tile, and wanted to make sure this scheme of mounting was acceptable.

Thank you for your help.

 

[raider1]

The NEC isn't going to address this issue.

You will need to check with the ceiling grid manufactures and with building codes to find the requirements for mounting items such as speakers directly to the ceiling tiles.

Chris

 

[Chris6245]

Actually I am an engineering working for a speaker manufacturer! I was hoping there were guidelines on the weight tile can hold so that we could eliminate the need for those supports. I see a lot of cameras, fire alarms, and security motion sensors mounted right to the tile, and wanted to make sure this scheme of mounting was acceptable.

Thank you for your help.

I doubt that they are only suspended from the ceiling tile unless they are drywall type tiles. 16oz. of weight over a period of time will cause a standard ceiling tile to sag and eventually come down, especially if there is any moisture (humidity) around. Any camera's that we mount in a ceiling tile will have a caddy T-bar spanning the grid above the tile.

 

[dezwitinc]

I have never seen a job where it was acceptable to mount equipment to a ceiling tile.
Not only will the tile sag, it has the potential to fall on the head of a fireman in the event of an emergency.
This is why fixtures are fastened to the grid or jack chained to the building structure.
Granted, people attach to the tiles all the time but that does not make it right.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Actually I am an engineering working for a speaker manufacturer! I was hoping there were guidelines on the weight tile can hold so that we could eliminate the need for those supports. I see a lot of cameras, fire alarms, and security motion sensors mounted right to the tile, and wanted to make sure this scheme of mounting was acceptable.

Thank you for your help.

What you are seeing is these devices mounted through the tile, not to the tile.

 

[iwire]

I see a lot of cameras, fire alarms, and security motion sensors mounted right to the tile, and wanted to make sure this scheme of mounting was acceptable.

No, but those of the types of systems that get installed without inspections and are often just 'thrown in'.

When we install speakers we buy the brackets that span the ceiling grid.

Why would you want to eliminate them, don't you make money selling products?

 

[raider1]

What you are seeing is these devices mounted through the tile, not to the tile.

All too often I see devices that are mounted to the tile, using toggle bolts and the like.

Chris

 

[mdshunk]

I have already cut a piece of plywood, either 2' x 2' or 2' x 4', to lay on top of the tile, so that I can screw through the tile and into the plywood backer.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Most likely your fire marshal has something to say.Water could cause them to fall easy or a roof leak.Liability alone should get you to put in a grid wire.

 

[kbsparky]

While mounting directly to the tile may work initially, I have a problem with that sort of thinking.

Try going back a couple of years (or more) later, and then look at it. The tile is usually beginning to sag, and looks horrible. The heavier the device, and the higher the humidity, the worse the sag.:-?

A simple bracket made of sheet metal, or other material can go a long way towards making the job look good for many years.:smile:

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

No, but those of the types of systems that get installed without inspections and are often just 'thrown in'.

When we install speakers we buy the brackets that span the ceiling grid.

Why would you want to eliminate them, don't you make money selling products?

I think they think they'll sell more by claiming "Mounts directly to tile! No need for cumbersome, ickky support bars or brackets" And, if you act now..."

 

[HighWirey]

In the last ten years have I not been allowed to place non-combustibles above industrial/commertial ceiling, or in the walls. No doubt it is an AHJ, fire marshal local call.
Can't go wrong with the appropriate caddy type bar.

Best Wishes

 

[mdshunk]

Doesn't somebody make a purpose-built sheet metal bracket that's pretty universal for mounting ceiling speakers in t-grid? I'm 99% sure I've seen these in a magazine or catalog in the last few years.

 

[iwire]

Doesn't somebody make a purpose-built sheet metal bracket that's pretty universal for mounting ceiling speakers in t-grid?

This is the one we usually use.

It's made by Bogen and works with or without a back box which would be required in a plenum ceiling.

 

[mdshunk]

This is the one we usually use.

It's made by Bogen and works with or without a back box which would be required in a plenum ceiling.

That's not the one I had in my mind, but that's the type of thing I was thinking about.

I've been required to use a back-box on 70 volt PA systems too, without regard to the plenum status of the ceiling. I don't know enough about PA systems to know if a 70 volt PA system is actually 70 volts, so I did comply.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Here in earthquake country we require everything in the ceiling to have a seismic support wire, weight is not a factor and according to the t-bar standards and the building code, equipment shall be secured to the grid and the structure.

After the last big one as we realized that it didn't have to weigh a lot to hurt you, as we walked and saw the corners of speaker covers embedded into the floor.

With all of the different weights above the grid, it becomes a matter of harmonics. You want everything moving together and not bouncing off of each other and falling through the ceiling.

 

[mhudson]

Thanks for the Information

Thanks for the Information

I would like to thank everyone for your input. As an engineer, I am always driven by the company to look at ways to cut costs. After listening to your input, and checking a lot of different sources, mounting into ceiling tile without a back support is just not a good idea. Just about every ceiling tile manufacture states that tiles are NOT a structural material.

Again, thank you for your input. We are not going to eliminate any structural support for our products.