Moving away from can killerz

[electrofelon]

Just letting everyone know I am moving away from can killerz led wafer lights for a number of reasons and will be recommending traditional housing with LED bulbs. Here is why:

1. I have had some issues with buzzing and noise from the wafer lights, and these are obviously a nightmare to change if you have such a problem. I had two projects with a ton of these and I noticed the noise, and I was terrified the client would want them replaced, but fortunately they didn't notice.

2. Clearly they are more difficult to change than just a bulb if / when they go bad, and of course finding identical replacements down the road may be difficult.

3. You essentially have to lay these out twice, once when you get the wires in place and then again when you cut them in.

4. It's stressful to keep track of the wires and find them and cut your holes in the right spot just kind of a hassle all around.

5. I don't want to cut the holes in the drywall, it's miserable and makes a mess.

I understand they make ther rough in pans that would solve problems 3 4 and 5,. So if the customer insisted on these, I would probably insist on stalling the rough-in pans.

This will be the new East West electric policy, please make a note of it, and tell all of your friends

 

[infinity]

I hear you but I have the opposite opinion. To me they solve more problems than they cause especially when you want to keep to a perfectly symmetrical layout and there are ceiling joists to deal with. As I stated in another thread I have about 60 of these in my own home and have had no issues with any types of noise even with dimmers. Could be a brand specific issue, I've used Halo exclusively.

I agree about parts I have an attic stock of spare fixtures for future replacements if something dies. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, at first I favored traditional recessed cans because of their look but now I don't even notice the wafer.

 

[electrofelon]

I hear you but I have the opposite opinion. To me they solve more problems than they cause especially when you want to keep to a perfectly symmetrical layout and there are ceiling joists to deal with. As I stated in another thread I have about 60 of these in my own home and have had no issues with any types of noise even with dimmers. Could be a brand specific issue, I've used Halo exclusively.

I agree about parts I have an attic stock of spare fixtures for future replacements if something dies. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, at first I favored traditional recessed cans because of their look but now I don't even notice the wafer.

 

[JoeNorm]

I hear you but I have the opposite opinion. To me they solve more problems than they cause especially when you want to keep to a perfectly symmetrical layout and there are ceiling joists to deal with. As I stated in another thread I have about 60 of these in my own home and have had no issues with any types of noise even with dimmers. Could be a brand specific issue, I've used Halo exclusively.

I agree about parts I have an attic stock of spare fixtures for future replacements if something dies. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, at first I favored traditional recessed cans because of their look but now I don't even notice the wafer.

On a bigger job with a lot of these, what is your method for keeping track of where all the wires are?

 

[electrofelon]

On a bigger job with a lot of these, what is your method for keeping track of where all the wires are?

I make a map or description of the locations and spacings and hope to God I don't lose it!

 

[electrofelon]

Do any of you use those rough-in pans? How do those work and how much do they cost?

 

[hillbilly1]

I have to agree with finding replacements if they go bad, so many companies go under, or change the design so often. One the project managers at the previous company I worked for, would order off the wall designer fixtures when doing the big boss’s house. I told them they would regret it. Now five years later, fixtures are failing every where in the house, takes months to get the replacement parts because they are not an off the shelf item.

 

[tthh]

I have to agree with finding replacements if they go bad, so many companies go under, or change the design so often. One the project managers at the previous company I worked for, would order off the wall designer fixtures when doing the big boss’s house. I told them they would regret it. Now five years later, fixtures are failing every where in the house, takes months to get the replacement parts because they are not an off the shelf item.

What kills me is going into a house and there are three different color temp lights in the kitchen. That's what happens when you can't get replacements. Even with LED bulbs in cans, you gotta have several spares from the same stock. If you don't, you may get the same color, but a replacement one may have a different turn on delay and that drives me nuts too.

 

[Hv&Lv]

What kills me is going into a house and there are three different color temp lights in the kitchen. That's what happens when you can't get replacements. Even with LED bulbs in cans, you gotta have several spares from the same stock. If you don't, you may get the same color, but a replacement one may have a different turn on delay and that drives me nuts too.

That’s exactly what I despise about the LEDs. For the wafer lights it’s like I have to buy 8-10 for a 6 light install.
That way I can have a replacement “just in case”

 

[Little Bill]

On a bigger job with a lot of these, what is your method for keeping track of where all the wires are?

I write the distance from walls and distance between lights on the wire. I then take a video with my phone, reading aloud the distances and how many spots I have wired for. On the trim out, I refer to my video.

 

[electrofelon]

What kills me is going into a house and there are three different color temp lights in the kitchen. That's what happens when you can't get replacements. Even with LED bulbs in cans, you gotta have several spares from the same stock. If you don't, you may get the same color, but a replacement one may have a different turn on delay and that drives me nuts too.

Also dimming level will probably not match, even if color and physical appearance match.

Although on the flip side, if you needed some extra ones you could just Rob them from one room to get your uniform set and then replace all the ones in that other room. That is one strategy.

I'm just kind of sick of all the hassles with these "LED light units" and changing an LED bulb is so much easier if you have issues. Literally every time I install these wafer lights I hold my breath when I turn on the switch to see if they buzz or don't dim well.

 

[readydave8]

On a bigger job with a lot of these, what is your method for keeping track of where all the wires are?

We did a house with approx 140 wafers, screwed a construction screw into plywood subfloor at each one

Made up the driver box on roughin

As soon as sheetrock was hung, went thru with laser level (plumb bob) and holesaw

 

[readydave8]

Do any of you use those rough-in pans? How do those work and how much do they cost?

tried them once but wasn't impressed, I think they cost about half the price of the fixture itself so 1.5x on cost of fixture

also increased labor. also did not get as good a fit as with holes I did myself

 

[readydave8]

you want to keep to a perfectly symmetrical layout and there are ceiling joists to deal with.

that sells me right there,

 

[nickelec]

I don't use them ever on new construction jobs . Mostly for the simple fact that there's no way to have lights on the job until tapers are done Wich I don't like at all.

With conventionally cans you an buy cheap enough temp bulbs formth duration of the project

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[electrofelon]

that sells me right there,

Yup not being at the mercy of joists is a big plus.

 

[electrofelon]

I don't use them ever on new construction jobs . Mostly for the simple fact that there's no way to have lights on the job until tapers are done Wich I don't like at all.

With conventionally cans you an buy cheap enough temp bulbs formth duration of the project

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

Yup having easy temp lighting is a big plus with regular cans

Oh dear, there are so many positives and negatives to both

 

[Terminator5047]

Why not use the wafer lights that mount to a standard 4/0 box then you don’t have to worry about losing them ?

 

[wwhitney]

Why not use the wafer lights that mount to a standard 4/0 box then you don’t have to worry about losing them ?

I can think of 3 possible downsides:

(1) the layout may be hard to do accurately at rough; the landmarks that drive a symmetrical layout may not yet be installed ;
(2) the box might have to be where a joist is located; and
(3) those stick down ~1/2" from the ceiling, while the ones that clip to the drywall only stick down the thickness of the metal perimeter flange.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[James L]

I'm not moving away from wafers, but I am goung to start doubling the price to use them in a new construction application.

Laying them out twice - once for wires, once on finish was enough for me on a job with almost 100 of them.

Can killer? More like time killer. Schedule killer.

Builder was like - why you taking so long?
umm, because of these goofy lights you insisted on.

My last 2 jobs, I marked an X on the floor at each location, then used a laser plumb on the finish. Concrete areas I had to mark measurements on the print.

Making up a can light secured in place isuch faster that the little box dangling on the end of the wires.

There are specific applications where I'll suggest wafers, like basements with short ceilings. Being edge lit makes the easier on the eyes.

Remodels where symmetry is the most important factor. They saved the day on a job with a hip roof. Every room had a diagonal joist in the outside corners.

But I'm mostly done trying them