Multi Family Dwelling
- Thread starter mkrish
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ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
Yes and yes
Yes and yes
gregoryelectricinc
Senior Member
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
Yes on # 1 and Maybe on # 2. Some local AHJ's require the panel feeders from a multi-meter service to be piped underground around exterior of building or under slabs IF the properties are to be sold as condo's. If you are dealing with apartment complexes, then no problem with running one panel feeder through another apartment in SER cable. At least that's the way it typically works on the front range of Colorado.
Yes on # 1 and Maybe on # 2. Some local AHJ's require the panel feeders from a multi-meter service to be piped underground around exterior of building or under slabs IF the properties are to be sold as condo's. If you are dealing with apartment complexes, then no problem with running one panel feeder through another apartment in SER cable. At least that's the way it typically works on the front range of Colorado.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
If sold watch out, even underground thru anothers unit may not be allowed.The problem lies with what happens if the feed went bad.Many GC won't allow you going even under the others unit because it opens up the problem of needing to cut thru the other units floor.So check with AHJ and builder first.
Think what might happen if one unit caught fire and other units feed was thru it's rafters!!!!
If sold watch out, even underground thru anothers unit may not be allowed.The problem lies with what happens if the feed went bad.Many GC won't allow you going even under the others unit because it opens up the problem of needing to cut thru the other units floor.So check with AHJ and builder first.
Think what might happen if one unit caught fire and other units feed was thru it's rafters!!!!
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
Gee Jim, do you think thats why you are required to have a one hour fire partition between units, extending to the underside of the roof sheathing?
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
The issue has come up on townhouses here and we cant even cross under slabs if we are down 18 inches.Should the feeds go bad and melted then what ? cut up the floor in the others unit?Likly NO
I think it is pure bull but they are pushing it here.
I have done fire jobs and one hour fire walls are a joke.
[ January 09, 2004, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
The issue has come up on townhouses here and we cant even cross under slabs if we are down 18 inches.Should the feeds go bad and melted then what ? cut up the floor in the others unit?Likly NO
I think it is pure bull but they are pushing it here.
I have done fire jobs and one hour fire walls are a joke.
[ January 09, 2004, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
How do you mean?
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
Jim, have you ever asked for documentation showing this requirement as an amendment in this location you are talking about. Could it be you are confusing this with architectural specs?
I would also like to know what you mean about the deficiencies in the rated assemblies.
Can you describe how they are constructed.
Roger
Jim, have you ever asked for documentation showing this requirement as an amendment in this location you are talking about. Could it be you are confusing this with architectural specs?
I would also like to know what you mean about the deficiencies in the rated assemblies.
Can you describe how they are constructed.
Roger
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
The requirement is not NEC .Do know i was forced to dig around outside.It may be just a FL law.
As to 1 hour fire walls.If my feeder is ran in the attic above your drywall ceiling just how fast do you think fire departments are.I will bet fire goes thru 5/8 drywall in far less than an hour.What about heat damage if it even makes it thru the fire ?
The requirement is not NEC .Do know i was forced to dig around outside.It may be just a FL law.
As to 1 hour fire walls.If my feeder is ran in the attic above your drywall ceiling just how fast do you think fire departments are.I will bet fire goes thru 5/8 drywall in far less than an hour.What about heat damage if it even makes it thru the fire ?
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
Jim: Have you ever considered lending some of your vast experience with fire resistance rated assemblies to the American Society for Testing and Materials? Perhaps they will change the proven methods for demonstrating fire resistance performance known as the ASTM E119 once they get your opinion. :roll:
Jim: Have you ever considered lending some of your vast experience with fire resistance rated assemblies to the American Society for Testing and Materials? Perhaps they will change the proven methods for demonstrating fire resistance performance known as the ASTM E119 once they get your opinion. :roll:
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
I have been on at least 30 burned homes in last 2 years.I know what i see.If the drywall did last one hour then the fire must have lasted 2.All im saying is that the feeders to other units ran above a burned unit could easily get destroyed.Apartments do burn to the ground sometimes,so it is safe to say that 1 hour rating might not get the job done.
I have been on at least 30 burned homes in last 2 years.I know what i see.If the drywall did last one hour then the fire must have lasted 2.All im saying is that the feeders to other units ran above a burned unit could easily get destroyed.Apartments do burn to the ground sometimes,so it is safe to say that 1 hour rating might not get the job done.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
Going around some of these buildings can be a challenge to keep it at 360
Going around some of these buildings can be a challenge to keep it at 360
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
Jim,
The rated assemblies are given a UL design # in the contract documents, can you tell us what these designs #'s are?
Then we might be able to tell you if they are constructed correctly.
Roger
Jim,
if there is this much damage the power to the other units wouldn't be the reason the other tenants would be evacuated. There would be massive water damage, structural concerns, toxic concerns etc...
The rated assemblies are given a UL design # in the contract documents, can you tell us what these designs #'s are?
Then we might be able to tell you if they are constructed correctly.
Roger
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
Well i had just exactly one of these units . Bottom floor destroyed,unit behind it un hurt,unit above it no damage other than carpet melted,units to both sides unharmed.The fire was in the air handler center of the bottom unit.4other units feeders were almost damaged,mostly just soot on them and inspector let them fly.Had they got damaged the other tenants would have lost power and been evicted.Think how much drywall damage there would be to replace runs that were 2 units past the burned unit.It was a 30 year old building with wood floors between units.
Well i had just exactly one of these units . Bottom floor destroyed,unit behind it un hurt,unit above it no damage other than carpet melted,units to both sides unharmed.The fire was in the air handler center of the bottom unit.4other units feeders were almost damaged,mostly just soot on them and inspector let them fly.Had they got damaged the other tenants would have lost power and been evicted.Think how much drywall damage there would be to replace runs that were 2 units past the burned unit.It was a 30 year old building with wood floors between units.
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
Jim,
The floor decking was probably fire treated.
Now, it sounds to me that it was indeed a rated assembly that did it's job as designed, isn't that what you think too?
So, how can you say rated assemblies are a joke?
Roger
Jim,
if it's a 30 year old building how do you know what the rating is?
The floor decking was probably fire treated.
Now, it sounds to me that it was indeed a rated assembly that did it's job as designed, isn't that what you think too?
So, how can you say rated assemblies are a joke?
Roger
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
It was a set of wood floor truses .Drywall on bottom, 3/4 plywood on top to make upper unit a floor.The wire in question was run inside the floor trusses.A rated assemblY ? LOL
Take my word for it ,i seen it,you didn't.Another 15 minutes and the wire would have been gone,along with 2 apartments above it.
It was a set of wood floor truses .Drywall on bottom, 3/4 plywood on top to make upper unit a floor.The wire in question was run inside the floor trusses.A rated assemblY ? LOL
Take my word for it ,i seen it,you didn't.Another 15 minutes and the wire would have been gone,along with 2 apartments above it.
luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
Jim,
I see where you're going with this, but it really is a Design issue.
It is not the intent of Code to worry about the neighboring units' drywall repairs in the event these feeders are damaged as a result of fire. TY
Jim,
I see where you're going with this, but it really is a Design issue.
It is not the intent of Code to worry about the neighboring units' drywall repairs in the event these feeders are damaged as a result of fire. TY
Re: Multi Family Dwelling
Jim, it doesn't matter if I saw it or not, the assembly performed it's intended function. If it would have burned beyond this point, the feeders would have been a low priority as far as the bldg itself.
Roger
Jim, it doesn't matter if I saw it or not, the assembly performed it's intended function. If it would have burned beyond this point, the feeders would have been a low priority as far as the bldg itself.
Roger
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