MULTI GROUNDED NEUTRAL DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM

[mtnelect]

– The multigrounded neutral system is the predominant electrical distribution system used in the United States. It permits an uncontrolled amount of electric current to flow over the earth unrestrained, posing the potential of harm to the public and to animals causing electric shocks and is presumed responsible for undetected electrocutions. To compound the problem of uncontrolled current over the earth, utility practices places harmful current from lightning strokes directly into customers homes

Part One - Pages 1 - 9

 

[retirede]

MGN must be your eternal flame - burning forever!

 

[mtnelect]

MGN must be your eternal flame - burning forever!

I like the historical aspect of the article, as it starts with Edison and the evolution of the use of electricity. I thought this forum would be a great place to expose different thoughts on the science.

 

[electrofelon]

and is presumed responsible for undetected electrocutions.

Lol ok whatever that means.

 

[mtnelect]

Lol ok whatever that means.

My understanding is that GFCI outlets have a 5 ma trip level to stop the heart, so the "Stray Current" being pumped into the ground, has a "presumed responsible for undetected electrocutions" depending on the location.

 

[electrofelon]

"presumed" by who? That is a weasel word. A weasel word is a word or phrase that is vague or ambiguous, but to the untrained conveys importance, scientific evidence, or valid information for a debate. I wish more people would take a critical thinking class, then more people could spot stuff like that article as being junk.

 

[electrofelon]

...And what on earth is an "undetected electrocution." What does that even mean?

 

[mtnelect]

...And what on earth is an "undetected electrocution." What does that even mean?

If you believe that the utilities are pumping "Stray Current" into the earth, then you can believe a potential for electrocution. Or you can believe that isn't true.

 

[jim dungar]

What a purely single sided report. As electrofelon pointed out, it is ripe with 'weasel' words and phrases. It throws around the term 'electrical engineer' as if all EE's were equally trained in power systems. This reminds me of the commercials about dentists recommending toothpaste.

Where are the peer review comments for this paper? What is wrong with using industry accepted terminology like 'stray voltage'? I have never met any farmer in Wisconsin that uses the term 'stray current', but I have only lived in the state for 60 years.

 

[mtnelect]

What a purely single sided report. As electrofelon pointed out, it is ripe with 'weasel' words and phrases. It throws around the term 'electrical engineer' as if all EE's were equally trained in power systems. This reminds me of the commercials about dentists recommending toothpaste.

Where are the peer review comments for this paper? What is wrong with using industry accepted terminology like 'stray voltage'? I have never met any farmer in Wisconsin that uses the term 'stray current', but I have only lived in the state for 60 years.

What caught my attention on this article was the revaluation that there was a connection between the primary and secondary of a pole transformer and the reason(s) for it.

 

[mtnelect]

The multigrounded neutral system is the predominant electrical distribution system used in the United States. It permits an uncontrolled amount of electric current to flow over the earth unrestrained, posing the potential of harm to the public and to animals causing electric shocks and is presumed responsible for undetected electrocutions. To compound the problem of uncontrolled current over the earth, utility practices places harmful current from lightning strokes directly into customers homes.
At the end of this article are foot note references.

Part One - Pages 1 - 9

Part Two - Pages 10 -16

 

[TwoBlocked]

Electrocute: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/electrocute

But regardless of a poor choice of words and regardless of an article with an agenda (I haven't read it), stray ground currents can be a problem. Daily cattle are very sensitive to it and it can mess up active galvanic protection systems for underground piping. Electronic equipment, too. That's the purpose of isolated grounding.

 

[electrofelon]

If you believe that the utilities are pumping "Stray Current" into the earth, then you can believe a potential for electrocution. Or you can believe that isn't true.

No I do not believe utilities are "pumping" current into the earth, because they are not.

 

[ggunn]

No I do not believe utilities are "pumping" current into the earth, because they are not.

If they are it should be possible to drill for it. I would like to have an electron well in my back yard so that I could cut my tie to the grid.

 

[electrofelon]

If they are it should be possible to drill for it. I would like to have an electron well in my back yard so that I could cut my tie to the grid.

You are in luck! I sell equipment for electron wells and electron well drilling! I have a starter kit for $99.99, but only for the first 100 buyers so act quickly, I only have a few left!

 

[zbang]

Oh, no, not again.

uncontrolled amount of electric current

It is certainly controlled, by the impedance of the conductor, and I suspect the so-called "earth current" is rather low compared to that in any metallic conductors (Kirchoff's Law and all that).

 

[mtnelect]

What a purely single sided report. As electrofelon pointed out, it is ripe with 'weasel' words and phrases. It throws around the term 'electrical engineer' as if all EE's were equally trained in power systems. This reminds me of the commercials about dentists recommending toothpaste.

Where are the peer review comments for this paper? What is wrong with using industry accepted terminology like 'stray voltage'? I have never met any farmer in Wisconsin that uses the term 'stray current', but I have only lived in the state for 60 years.

The foot notes, that this article references are at the end page 23. Part One (1-9) Part Two (10-16)

 

[jim dungar]

The foot notes, that this article references are at the end page 23. Part One (1-9) Part Two (10-16)

I asked for peer review, not references.
The article makes a big deal about Wisconsin and dairy cows. In 45 years of being a AI licensed Professional Engineer, trained and working with powers systems and rotating machines, I have only been asked to work on 1 issue of stray voltage. I recommended a neutral isolator from Ronk, but the farm ended up working directly with their POCO instead.

 

[mtnelect]

I asked for peer review, not references.
The article makes a big deal about Wisconsin and dairy cows. In 45 years of being a AI licensed Professional Engineer, trained and working with powers systems and rotating machines, I have only been asked to work on 1 issue of stray voltage. I recommended a neutral isolator from Ronk, but the farm ended up working directly with their POCO instead.

I appreciate your remarks on this article and consider you as a "Peer Reviewer". I am only an inside wireman without the professional training you have achieved. I am listening closely to your reviews.

Thank you for taking the time and trouble.

 

[jim dungar]

I appreciate your remarks on this article and consider you as a "Peer Reviewer". I am only an inside wireman without the professional training you have achieved. I am listening closely to your reviews.

Thank you for taking the time and trouble.

I do not plan to do any peer reviewing, although I might offer anecdotal comments.
I do not agree with your views against MGN. As I have stated, there are pros and cons. It is not my intent to change any person's views.