Multi-location dimming issues

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Hey all!

Been having issues at a particular house that I've been remodeling. In both 3 and 4-way switching configurations certain set-ups do not work with LED dimmer, and they don't seem connected to the typical compatibility issues. For instance:

1) Dining room- Lutron C-L analog (Toggler) dimmer on one end, regular 3-way snap switch on the other. Dimmer works fine and turns lights on and off, but when I change the position of the snap switch, and then try to turn the lights on with the dimmer, they struggle, flicker, and fail to work correctly. But it's only in the "opposite" switch position.

2) Kitchen and living room - Occasionally LED bulbs wont even turn on, at least for a full minute...sometimes struggle to turn on, but do eventually. Varies depending on switch position, but truthfully after half an hour of testing, can't find a consistent pattern. This only happens once every few weeks.

3) This even happened on incandescent bulbs with the analog dimmer in a family room area on one occasion.

Things to consider
- I adjusted the black dial multiple times....not the issue.
- Using dimmable LED bulbs (trust me, I went through MANY brands), the issue is consistent with all brands.
- The previous builder used two 14/2 wires for travelers for all multi-location switching, instead of 14/3. I'm wondering if it could be creating EMF and if that could even cause an issue.
- The voltage at the house is a little on the low side, 113V at the panel consistently.
- Never had these issues with the same products at other houses.

Feel free to take a crack at it!
 

blkmagik21

Senior Member
Location
Kennewick
Hey all!

Been having issues at a particular house that I've been remodeling. In both 3 and 4-way switching configurations certain set-ups do not work with LED dimmer, and they don't seem connected to the typical compatibility issues. For instance:

1) Dining room- Lutron C-L analog (Toggler) dimmer on one end, regular 3-way snap switch on the other. Dimmer works fine and turns lights on and off, but when I change the position of the snap switch, and then try to turn the lights on with the dimmer, they struggle, flicker, and fail to work correctly. But it's only in the "opposite" switch position.

2) Kitchen and living room - Occasionally LED bulbs wont even turn on, at least for a full minute...sometimes struggle to turn on, but do eventually. Varies depending on switch position, but truthfully after half an hour of testing, can't find a consistent pattern. This only happens once every few weeks.

3) This even happened on incandescent bulbs with the analog dimmer in a family room area on one occasion.

Things to consider
- I adjusted the black dial multiple times....not the issue.
- Using dimmable LED bulbs (trust me, I went through MANY brands), the issue is consistent with all brands.
- The previous builder used two 14/2 wires for travelers for all multi-location switching, instead of 14/3. I'm wondering if it could be creating EMF and if that could even cause an issue.
- The voltage at the house is a little on the low side, 113V at the panel consistently.
- Never had these issues with the same products at other houses.

Feel free to take a crack at it!

There is a setting on the dimmer for whether it uses a mechanical switch or a companion dimmer for 3 ways use. Change that setting and it should work


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

blkmagik21

Senior Member
Location
Kennewick
Is the wiring using just power to trigger it or is it using two travelers to do so? Most of those use only one leg of power to be either on or off on the sensor screw


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Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
Is the wiring using just power to trigger it or is it using two travelers to do so? Most of those use only one leg of power to be either on or off on the sensor screw


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The OP is using a Lutron toggler. These do not use remotes. They just use regular 3 way and 4 way wiring configuration.
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
170727-1932 EDT

I have run various experiments with a CL dimmer and had good results.

The CL is what I call a two wire dimmer, this means a neutral or EGC as one input for the dimmer is not required or used. Power to operate the dimmer electronics is solely derived from the series current thru the dimmer.

A three wire dimmer requires a neutral or an incorrectly used EGC to obtain power for the electronics. A three wire dimmer will work with no load.

The CL dimmer must be sourced from two wires, a hot and its associated neutral. I suspect that these two wires must be in the same cable or run in very close proximity to each other.

In a 3-way (4-way) system the three travelers must be run together, ideally in one cable. There must be no neutral paths (parallel) separate from the three travelers.

Does your problem occur when the dimmer is set at maximum brightness? Or only at low brightness levels?

.
 
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