Multi-wire branch circuit

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Archierocharly

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Location
Maryland
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Electrician
Existing kitchen has a 12-3 to the fridge and kitchen outlets. This county is on the 2023 code. Older GE panel. What if any options are there to bring it up to code. Nobody seems to make a dual function double pole and can’t put a gfci outlet behind the fridge. Is there a way to get arc and gfi protection without running new lines?
 
What's the reason you are wanting to bring it up to the 2023? Are you remodeling?
 
Here in NJ you can reuse the existing circuits without having to add AFCI protection. For the refrigerator GFCI you could just install a blank face device near the refrigerator in an accessible location.
 
The kitchen was just remodeled and the electrician left the job. The GC was finishing the job and they got caught with no permit. So they are asking us to help get a final inspection. So we need arc and gfi protection at both the fridge and outlets. Trying to see if we can do anything before cutting a lot of drywall
 
Sounds like you'll just need to run a single new cable to any existing receptacle that's part of the MWBC and rewire with two new dual function circuit breakers.
 
Can you handle-tie two AFCI circuit breakers, pigtail the shared neutral at the panel to land on both breakers, and go with a blank face GFCI behind the fridge? No idea if that would work, I'm running out the door and can't look it up...
 
NEC Inspector said:
Can you handle-tie two AFCI circuit breakers, pigtail the shared neutral at the panel to land on both breakers, and go with a blank face GFCI behind the fridge? No idea if that would work, I'm running out the door and can't look it up...
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I think that once you pigtail the two AFCI breaker neutrals together it will trip when you attempt to turn them both on.
 
winnie said:
Add a subpanel that supports dual function double pole breakers.

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That would work but wouldn't solve the GFCI behind the refrigerator issue.

As long as there is another SABC serving the kitchen you could just use a single circuit with a dual function breaker and add the refrigerator receptacle to the existing SABC that's using the 3 wire cable. This would eliminate one circuit but would be code complaint.
 
Get a double pole 20A GFCI for the GE panel (I assume they exist).

Set a 2 space panel (enclosed circuit breaker) next to the GE panel, of a brand whose single pole AFCIs don't require a neutral connection. Install two single pole 20A AFCIs in that panel.

Run 12/3 from the 20A GFCI to the new 2 space panel, and connect the existing 12/3 to the load side of the new AFCIs.

Cheers, Wayne
 
infinity said:
I think that once you pigtail the two AFCI breaker neutrals together it will trip when you attempt to turn them both on.
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You can use two GE SP AFCI breakers with a handle tie. They won't trip as they have no GF function in them. I would do that and add GFCI protection. If the fridge happened to be fed off the countertop first, then a GFCI receptacle could be added to the countertop. If the fridge is first in line, then a blank face GFCI could be added and a second GFCI receptacle at the countertop.
 
infinity said:
I think that once you pigtail the two AFCI breaker neutrals together it will trip when you attempt to turn them both on.
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With at least 3 brands, that is no longer the case. That was the case for all of the original ones because having GFP in the AFCI was the only way that they could pass the tests for an AFCI. 10-12 years ago, GE found a way to provide AFCI protection without GFP. Now Siemens and one of the Eaton brands no longer have GFP in their AFCIs. For those AFCIs, you can wire them as a multiwire circuit with handle ties, but you cannot provide GFCI protection.
Two handle tied AFCIs could be used to feed a two pole GFCI breaker to provide both AFCI and GFCI protection.
 
Little Bill said:
Couldn't you feed two blank face GFCIs instead of a 2-P GFCI breaker? It would save having to add a subpanel for the breaker.
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As soon as you introduce a 120V GFCI, you need 4 wires downstream of it, separate neutrals for each leg.

So for the OP, what GFCI devices and where they could go will depend on how much of the circuit is wired 12/3 and where rewiring is feasible. If rewiring is to be limited to the vicinity of the panel, and there is only a 12/3 leaving that area to go to the kitchen, then a solution like I outlined is required.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
That would work assuming those breakers exist, but your link is to a double pole AFCI, not a double pole dual function.

Cheers, Wayne
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Gaah. The 'combination AFCI' terminology bites me on the rear.

I searched for 'double pole GFCI AFCI breaker', got a link to a double pole 'combination AFCI', look at the picture and see one of the indicator lights is 'gnd' and think that I have a GFCI/AFCI. But no, I have CAFCI that doesn't have class A GFCI protection. Whoops.

I presume you could install a two pole AFCI, and then run 2 hots and 1 neutral to a two pole GFCI...but this would require adding some sort of single breaker enclosure and starts building quite the bodge for what should be an easy off the shelf product. (Re-reading the thread, this is a variation on what Wayne suggested, I stick with 2 pole devices and switch the order, but in a nut shell it is two breaker in series.)
 
winnie said:
I presume you could install a two pole AFCI, and then run 2 hots and 1 neutral to a two pole GFCI...but this would require adding some sort of single breaker enclosure and starts building quite the bodge for what should be an easy off the shelf product.
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Simpler to do the other order, then you can use single pole AFCIs of the appropriate brand, see post #11.

Since Don confirmed GE is one of the brands that don't require a neutral connection to the single pole AFCI, the OP could use a $20 two position GE panel to maintain brand uniformity.


Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
As soon as you introduce a 120V GFCI, you need 4 wires downstream of it, separate neutrals for each leg.

So for the OP, what GFCI devices and where they could go will depend on how much of the circuit is wired 12/3 and where rewiring is feasible. If rewiring is to be limited to the vicinity of the panel, and there is only a 12/3 leaving that area to go to the kitchen, then a solution like I outlined is required.

Cheers, Wayne
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I didn't say the GFCI would be at the panel.
 
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