Multiple circuits in same conduit - wire identification

[winnie]

Any decent electrician should be able to pull common colored wires and number them with number tags. I get the idea of making it idiot proof with completely different colors but the NEC rules would have to be violated to do so.

You can be NEC compliant and have different colors for everything if you add sufficient dollars to get non standard colors or color combinations.

There are printers available which will code the continuous wire.

The more different wire types you have, the greater the logistic difficulty and the greater the scrap.

Jonathan

 

[That Man]

Read 210.3(C)(3) and tell us how you can use a color code for multiple voltage systems when the color code has been already been designated to one particular system.

Someone else has since pointed that out. They were helpful, as are most of the people who comment in these forums. That's why we come back. Then there's other sorts who comment.

 

[roger]

Someone else has since pointed that out. They were helpful, as are most of the people who comment in these forums. That's why we come back. Then there's other sorts who comment.

So why are you thinking the customer and your men need to have the code requirements "run by them"? They simply need to be instructed of the code requirements.

 

[roger]

BTW, please update your profile as Dennis asked.

 

[LarryFine]

All hot conductors are 277V. All are single phase loads, so my revised color coding would be:

What is being recommended is:

Ckt 1 phase A - brn 1
Ckt 1 phase B - org 1
Ckt 1 phase C - yel 1
Ckt 2 phase A - brn 2
Ckt 2 phase B - org 2
Ckt 2 phase C - yel 2
All neutrals gray

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Someone else has since pointed that out. They were helpful, as are most of the people who comment in these forums. That's why we come back. Then there's other sorts who comment.

Yes, but you were told that black, red, and blue may be used for 120/208v. If so you cannot use those colors but the following post you ignored those comments and wanted to use black, red and blue. Not acceptable for 277v as I am almost positive that black, red and blue are used as 120/208v.

 

[That Man]

Read article 700. In this case 700.10 specifically.

Thank you. This simplifies things a bit, as I can't try to be clever, I just have to run things separately.

 

[That Man]

Yes, but you were told that black, red, and blue may be used for 120/208v. If so you cannot use those colors but the following post you ignored those comments and wanted to use black, red and blue. Not acceptable for 277v as I am almost positive that black, red and blue are used as 120/208v.

Oh yes, I've abandoned the premise of this thread pretty much. 210.5(C)(1) makes it moot IMO, and there just aren't enough wire colors for special applications like this, without getting into special order-type stuff.

 

[roger]

Thank you. This simplifies things a bit, as I can't try to be clever, I just have to run things separately.

 

[LarryFine]

Oh yes, I've abandoned the premise of this thread pretty much. 210.5(C)(1) makes it moot IMO, and there just aren't enough wire colors for special applications like this, without getting into special order-type stuff.

 

[david]

Thanks for the responses folks. I would have replied earlier, but my alerts don't seem to be working, so I didn't realize you guys were on the case.

Here are some follow-up comments to address your concerns:

All hot conductors are 277V. All are single phase loads, so my revised color coding would be:

Ckt 1 phase A - brn
Ckt 1 phase B - org
Ckt 1 phase C - yel
Ckt 2 phase A - blk
Ckt 2 phase B - red
Ckt 2 phase C - blu
N for Ckt 1 & 2 - wht - just one for both. neutral currents will be almost non-existent since the circuits are closely balanced
Emergency lighting - pnk - from a UL 924 inverter, just a single 277V, not three, weird
Emergency N - gry - I wasn't sure if this could share the wht N. I don't think it's a separately derived system, but just in case

There was some concern about running emergency lighting in the same conduit. Is that a code issue or a might get called out issue? I'll run this by the client and my guys.

There was some concern about 208 elsewhere in the building precluding use of blk red blu. There is 208 in the building. These circuits never leave the lighting conduit or mingle elsewhere, but the point still stands. Again, I'll run it by the others.

I may just default back to brn org yel like some of you suggest. The reason why I was going this way at all was because on two separate occasions, I've had all the lights overhead burn out at once because contractors mis-wired the lights. And I don't go to the field very often. You all know how expensive lights are.

There was some concern about running emergency lighting in the same conduit. Is that a code issue or a might get called out issue? I'll run this by the client and my guys.

Are you installing the 480/277? Or is that already existing in the building?

I may have missed that in your posting.

If 480 /277 and 208/120 both are already existing most likely brown,orange yellow and & black, red. Blue are already established for the wiring systems. You also need yo pay attention for the neutral colors that are already being used.

You may be in fact just bringing 480/277 into yhe building, just making this comment in case the 480/277 is also existing already

 

[That Man]

View attachment 2572385 View attachment 2572384

Ok I'll bite. You do know what the problem with this is right? If you don't identify the right wire to label in the first place, it doesn't matter what the label says. Not a problem if the wire's identification is built in (color). @winnie suggested plexing the cables before pulling, and that's a fantastic idea, but I hesitate to put that in my drawings; it feels too much like I'm telling the electricians how to do their job. I just want to try and engineer out as many problems as possible. But thanks anyway, seriously.

 

[LarryFine]

Ok I'll bite.

I'll bite back.

How many groups of three circuits do you need?

 

[roger]

In as much as "That Man" refuses to update his profile we are closing this thread.
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[That Man]

Are you installing the 480/277? Or is that already existing in the building?

I may have missed that in your posting.

If 480 /277 and 208/120 both are already existing most likely brown,orange yellow and & black, red. Blue are already established for the wiring systems. You also need yo pay attention for the neutral colors that are already being used.

You may be in fact just bringing 480/277 into yhe building, just making this comment in case the 480/277 is also existing already

Nah, it's all new. I've come to the conclusion there's no clever way to engineer out the problem here, as there aren't enough standard wire colors. I'll reserve my hare-brained ideas for some other aspect of the design.