Multiple GFCI’s resetting on multiple circuits in kitchen.

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Sparkolioio

Member
Location
Menlo Park, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor/C-10
Two different Edison circuits to two different locations in kitchen have 4 gfci’s on 4 circuits resetting. Customer says one of them has been resetting randomly for years, but a storm just started and now they are all resetting every 3-5 min. Can the issue be so severe on one circuit that it causes issues with other gfcis on the panel? Just disconnected the original trouble 3 wire, and other three wire gfcis are not resetting now. I guess I’ll run a new circuit for the original, but I’d like to know exactly how it was happening. I don’t have a megger on me right now, so I just have a basic Klein multimeter because my fluke died on me the other day. Any ideas?
 
By resetting do you mean that the GFCI receptacles just randomly trip? And I'm assuming that an Edison circuit is a MWBC, two circuits sharing a neutral?

Welcome to the Forum. :)
 
Yes, the gfcis are randomly tripping. Yes two 120v circuits sharing a neutral. So there are two 3 wire locations with 2 circuits each for a total of 4 120v kitchen branch circuits.

Thank you! Long time reader, first time registering lol.
 
infinity said:
By resetting do you mean that the GFCI receptacles just randomly trip? And I'm assuming that an Edison circuit is a MWBC, two circuits sharing a neutral?

Welcome to the Forum. :)
Click to expand...
I disconnect the original 3 wire, and the second three wire gfcis stopped tripping
 
The only ways to add GFCI receptacles to MWBCs are to either place on in every box, using only the line terminals, or only place one in each branch after the neutral splits, i.e., after they become two 2-wire circuits.
 
Sparkolioio said:
I disconnect the original 3 wire, and the second three wire gfcis stopped tripping
Click to expand...

Does just turning off the breaker(s) on the original 3-wire circuit also stop the GFCI receptacles on the second 3-wire circuit from tripping? If not, then it sounds like there could be some issue on the neutral, because it would be tripping only when the neutral remains connected.
 
It does stop the second 3 wire from tripping. That is why it is so confusing. When I disconnect both the 3 wire 2pole circuits from the panel, there is no continuity between any of the wires. Now I found a hidden receptacle that had unused wire terminals all the way out with a metal mudring, tighten terminals, taped them, and installed carefully in the center, and now the issue hasn’t repeated. My big question is still, how the heck did one circuit affect the other when the only place they are close to each other is being the breaker above the other. Can the resistance be so high on the short that it trips adjoining breaker’s gfcis?
 
synchro said:
Does just turning off the breaker(s) on the original 3-wire circuit also stop the GFCI receptacles on the second 3-wire circuit from tripping? If not, then it sounds like there could be some issue on the neutral, because it would be tripping only when the neutral remains connected.
Click to expand...
One other strange thing on this; I disconnected the load side of the original gfci circuit and energized it unprotected from the gfci and it started popping in the boxes and not tripping the circuit. I am going to be replacing the breakers of both multi circuits just in case, but this is officially the weirdest thing I have seen troubleshooting in over 20 years.
 
This might help.
 

Attachments

  • NATIONAL ELECTRIC CODE - Proposed Changes 2023, Correction No. 3.pdf
    129 KB · Views: 15
mtnelect said:
This might help.
Click to expand...
This is simply stating that grounded conductors should be labeled to avoid confusion as far as I can tell.

The two Edison circuits are visually labeled and separate in the panel, and go to opposite areas. One Edison circuit goes to the kitchen sink counter, and another goes to the opposite side of a great room where it feeds counter space for the entertainment bar sink/counter, roughly 50ish feet away. They are not on afci/gfci breakers, the breakers are normal square d Homeline breakers. The grounded conductors, or neutral wires of each Edison circuit are connected properly on the neutral bar in the sub panel. Since this is residential the only grounded conductors are the neutral wires of the circuit. Not quite sure why this article helps? The install is correct, all the wires are identified, and neither Edison circuit share a junction box or continuity. Yet the circuit on one edison circuit was causing the gfci local resets to pop on the other Edison circuit. Completely separate wires, and the only place these circuits are close to each other is that the neutrals are on the same neutral bar(isolated from ground in the sub panel) the ground wires are on the same ground bar, and the two two pole breakers are on the right side of the panel on top of each other. Everything looks correct except for the short that caused a different circuit’s gfci devices to reset.
 
synchro said:
Does just turning off the breaker(s) on the original 3-wire circuit also stop the GFCI receptacles on the second 3-wire circuit from tripping? If not, then it sounds like there could be some issue on the neutral, because it would be tripping only when the neutral remains connected.
Click to expand...
I think the issue that the short on one circuit is affecting the other circuit through the neutral bar, but I wanted to see if anyone else has experienced this.
 
All GFCI's work by monitoring the load going out and returning. If they don't match, then they trip. So, you have some part of the load going somewhere else.
 
mtnelect said:
All GFCI's work by monitoring the load going out and returning. If they don't match, then they trip. So, you have some part of the load going somewhere else.
Click to expand...
Again, the wires are completely separate. They have all been traced and checked for continuity. So the only place the load could be crossing over is at the sub panel.
 
Sparkolioio said:
Again, the wires are completely separate. They have all been traced and checked for continuity. So the only place the load could be crossing over is at the sub panel.
Click to expand...

Since you have no grounding conductor in the wiring, it sounds like you have cloth covered wiring.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top