Multiple Neutrals in same box

[brother]

Jon,
I fully agree, but the CMP 6 does not. I submitted a proposal for the 2008 code to change this, but the CMP insists that the words "shall be permitted" actually prohibit any other installation...I wonder where they studied the English language?

OK im gonna get off topic for a second!!

AH HA!! LOL Just as i suspected!! Remember that 'little' debate er uh i mean 'discussion' that we had in the 'Bonding subpanel to electrode.' ???
go here to post #46
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=100861&page=5

I said basically the same thing what they are saying in there little response you typed. when they put up the exceptions it looks like they were intending to have a restriction in the comment 'shall be permitted' even though it does not say 'shall not be allowed'. Thats the logic they are using there.

there is a DIRECT statement in 250.104(A)(1) that says "metal water piping system installed in or attached to a building or structure shall be bonded to the service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductore where of sufficient size, or to the one or more grounding electrodes used.

The language specifically
allows conductors 1/0 or larger to be run in parallel, which means conductors
smaller than 1/0 in general are not permitted to be run in parallel.
Number Eligible to Vote: 11
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 11

Also another of my comments from that line of reasoning

I was not stating that those additional sections 2, 3 limited the extra bonding, I was stating that if they (CMP) DID not intend to limit it in the 1st section then there would be NO need for the EXCEPTIONS. Thats just basic reasoning and reading it in context. Thats how they do all the code sections, if they did not intend to limit something then there would be no need for an exception, would you not agree ??

Ok, im not wanting to debate that topic again, 'Bonding subpanel' just wanted to point something out.

 

[C3PO]

I think it's pretty funny that user 'C3PO' responds just a few posts after Bob suggests we "use the force". :smile:

Just trying to help. :grin:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Wasn't that Yul Gibbons?

No it was Ewell Gibbons :grin:. Stalking the wild asparagus. He tried to tell us to eat young poison ivy leaves to build up a resistance to it. I am glad I didn't follow that advice.

 

[cschmid]

When you have neutrals from different circuits but the same system contained in the same junction box, is it permissible to tie them all together?

Thanks,

matt

Matt I am sure you do not mean taking the wire nuts off and tyeing them all together right..What I suspect is that you want to snag a circuit out of the box and is it okay to use any set of nuetrals..I do not believe you would violate any codes but you would create any number of hazards for humans and equipment envolved..as mentioned earlier that would be a night mare in lost revenue trouble shooting a malfunctioning AFCI or GFCI created by that installation..Your boss would not be happy..Now if you are in a commercial or industrial setting the same hazards arise except they can become more severe in the hazardous areas..Is it a code violation NO..It does lack in professionalism and looks to the guy fixing the problems like a hack did the job..I would not recommend it..

 

[iwire]

Matt I am sure you do not mean taking the wire nuts off and tyeing them all together right..

I think that is exactly what he meant.

What I suspect is that you want to snag a circuit out of the box and is it okay to use any set of nuetrals..I do not believe you would violate any codes

That would violate 300.3(B) and perhaps the rules in 240 for overcurrent protection.

 

[cschmid]

I would hope that is not what he meant..

as for 303(B) Conductors of the Same Circuit. All conductors of the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor and all equipment grounding conductors and bonding conductors shall be contained within the same raceway, auxiliary gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with 300.3(B)(1) through (B)(4).

I could see this being a violation if the conductors are in different raceways..I am also sure you could violate 240 in some way but you could get lucky and not..I still do not recommend this procedure..

 

[iaov]

Yea, go ahead. Make fun of the old guy! :grin:

That was kind of insensitive of me.:grin:

 

[BarryO]

Wasn't that Yul Gibbons?

Yea, Yul Brynner died of "slow suicide" (smoked like a chimney).

 

[76nemo]

Well it's been nice knowing you all, I am off to suck on a tail pipe.

Oh my god, you talk about laughter. That was the best in quite awhile, company's looking at me like I am nuts. "They just figuring that out?"

Thanks Bob:smile: