multiple switch control

[stevepotvin]

I must be doing this too long.
question; where in nec does it address the use of multiple switch control (3 way/4 way) when a room that requires a lighting outlet has more than one entrance/exit. The only reference I can find is in 1987 edition of "American Electrians' Handbook " it references the code but gives no section and I couldn't find it in my copy of 87 code. Does anyone know the current or last reference in code as I may have put my foot in my mouth with a builder who contends that one switch meets code. thanks Steve

 

[joebell]

Re: multiple switch control

Steve

Check out Article 210.70 in the 2005 code.

[ May 03, 2005, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: joebell ]

 

[physis]

Re: multiple switch control

I'm not aware of any three or four way switch requirement in the NEC.

There are other codes aside from the NEC that may require them.

 

[physis]

Re: multiple switch control

Joebell,

I don't have 2005. My 2002 is almost worn out and we're still 1999.

Could you be so kind as to post 2005 210.70?

 

[jwelectric]

Re: multiple switch control

210.70 Lighting Outlets Required.
Lighting outlets shall be installed where specified in 210.70(A), (B), and (C).
(A) Dwelling Units. In dwelling units, lighting outlets shall be installed in accordance with 210.70(A)(1), (A)(2), and (A)(3).
(1) Habitable Rooms. At least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in every habitable room and bathroom.
Exception No. 1: In other than kitchens and bathrooms, one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be permitted in lieu of lighting outlets.
Exception No. 2: Lighting outlets shall be permitted to be controlled by occupancy sensors that are (1) in addition to wall switches or (2) located at a customary wall switch location and equipped with a manual override that will allow the sensor to function as a wall switch.
(2) Additional Locations. Additional lighting outlets shall be installed in accordance with (A)(2)(a), (A)(2)(b), and (A)(2)(c).
(a) At least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in hallways, stairways, attached garages, and detached garages with electric power.
(b) For dwelling units, attached garages, and detached garages with electric power, at least one wall switch?controlled lighting outlet shall be installed to provide illumination on the exterior side of outdoor entrances or exits with grade level access. A vehicle door in a garage shall not be considered as an outdoor entrance or exit.
(c) Where one or more lighting outlet(s) are installed for interior stairways, there shall be a wall switch at each floor level, and landing level that includes an entryway, to control the lighting outlet(s) where the stairway between floor levels has six risers or more.
Exception to (A)(2)(a), (A)(2)(b), and (A)(2)(c): In hallways, stairways, and at outdoor entrances, remote, central, or automatic control of lighting shall be permitted.
(3) Storage or Equipment Spaces. For attics, underfloor spaces, utility rooms, and basements, at least one lighting outlet containing a switch or controlled by a wall switch shall be installed where these spaces are used for storage or contain equipment requiring servicing. At least one point of control shall be at the usual point of entry to these spaces. The lighting outlet shall be provided at or near the equipment requiring servicing.
(B) Guest Rooms or Guest Suites. In hotels, motels, or similar occupancies, guest rooms or guest suites shall have at least one wall switch?controlled lighting outlet installed in every habitable room and bathroom.
Exception No. 1: In other than bathrooms and kitchens where provided, one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be permitted in lieu of lighting outlets.
Exception No. 2: Lighting outlets shall be permitted to be controlled by occupancy sensors that are (1) in addition to wall switches or (2) located at a customary wall switch location and equipped with a manual override that will allow the sensor to function as a wall switch.
(C) Other Than Dwelling Units. For attics and underfloor spaces containing equipment requiring servicing, such as heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment, at least one lighting outlet containing a switch or controlled by a wall switch shall be installed in such spaces. At least one point of control shall be at the usual point of entry to these spaces. The lighting outlet shall be provided at or near the equipment requiring servicing.

 

[davedottcom]

Re: multiple switch control

I don't see where it requires more than one switch except in a stairway.

Dave

 

[stevepotvin]

Re: multiple switch control

Thank you for the help guys,
I found the source of my thinking, it is a requirement for there being a switch at all entrance/exit locations in a room in a dwelling.
Now, I'll state my source and my line of thinking why it would in fact be a requirement of the nec.
circa 1987.The Industry committee on Interior wiring prepared the "Residential Wiring Guide" published by the Edison Electric Institute. 'The American Electrians Handbook' included excerpts fron the guide.
One of the excerpts noted as 'Muliple- switch control' gives all the requirements etc concerning the location of said switches.
Now for my thinking NEC 90.1(A)the purpose practical safeguarding etc and 210.70 exception no.2 addresses customery wall switch location, combined with industry standards such as above put the electrician in the position of being required to properly/safly switch lighting.
If there are any inspectors out there that would ok one switch at foyer entrance but no switches at the doorway from a kitchen,a breakfast room,and a bedroom?
I'm going to see what IAEI might have to say.
Thanks again ,Steve

 

[physis]

Re: multiple switch control

I'll state my source and my line of thinking why it would in fact be a requirement of the nec

Aside from the stairway landing it's still not required by the NEC.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: multiple switch control

Steve,
Not only are multiple switches not required by the NEC, the switch does not have to be any where near the room where the light is located.
Don

 

[benaround]

Re: multiple switch control

Don.
What is your opinion of 210.70(a)(1)?

frank

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: multiple switch control

Frank,
That section only requires that the wall switch controlled lighting outlet be in the room. It gives no information on the location of the wall switch. It can be anywhere in the universe as long as it is on a wall and controls the lighting outlet in the room.
Don

 

[stevepotvin]

Re: multiple switch control

Gentlemen, Thanks for the input just wanted to be sure I was not missing it in the NEC. I guess it just goes to show how minimal and poorly written the code really is. As a master electrian and inspector I will continue to write up lack of controls or dangerous locations as safty related but not out of code complience.
If I find any reference elsewhere regarding switching I'll be sure to post. thanks Steve

 

[steve66]

Re: multiple switch control

Thanks for the input just wanted to be sure I was not missing it in the NEC. I guess it just goes to show how minimal and poorly written the code really is.

I couldn't agree less.

I will gladly change my opinion if you can show me any deaths related to a light switch not being at every doorway to someone's dining room.

P.S. I'm sure your opinion isn't biased from being paid to tell people how unsafe their homes are :roll:

Steve

[ May 06, 2005, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: steve66 ]

 

[physis]

Re: multiple switch control

By Stevepotvin:

I will continue to write up lack of controls or dangerous locations as safty related but not out of code complience.

If an installation is code compliant, what in thunder blazes are you going to write it up for?

I hope I'm misunderstanding this but you sound like the crooked sheriff to me. You know, "I make my own laws".

I sure hope I'm misreading this, and if I'm not, I sure hope you'll reconsider your purpose as inspector.

Edit: Sorry Steve, I just can't get it right, one day I'll use the spell check. :roll:

[ May 06, 2005, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[joebell]

Re: multiple switch control

guys here in Massachusettes they are trying to do away with switches ,or so it seems, in commercial buildings they want everything to be on motion sensors. They have this new energy code that is part of the Mass. Building code that requires them.As for Steves comment on the NEC it is not written to be a design aide.

 

[steve66]

Re: multiple switch control

Posted by stevepotvin:

As a master electrian and inspector

After your comment about the NEC being poorly written, I assumed you meant "home inspector" as opposed to an official city inspector or AHJ.

My appology if I'm wrong about your employment, but I stand by my opinion that the NEC does a very good job of providing safe installations, when it is followed.

Steve

[ May 06, 2005, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: steve66 ]

 

[physis]

Re: multiple switch control

here in Massachusettes they are trying to do away with switches ,or so it seems, in commercial buildings they want everything to be on motion sensors

Sounds obsurd. California Energy Code is rediculous enough. Does Ma. feel left out?

Iwire?

Edit: I added the comment I was responding to.

[ May 06, 2005, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[LarryFine]

Re: multiple switch control

In my opinion, the end user should have the real say on switch locations for multi-entrance areas, and in most instances, convenience and user-friendliness call for doing more than just meeting code requirements.

For example, I invariably suggest receptacles be placed for the room and how it's likey to be furnished and used, (but exceeding minimum code spacing requirements.) A receptacle tucked tightly in a corner may meet code, but is not very useful.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: multiple switch control

This is a common misconception dating back years ago when it was required that a swich be located within a specific distance from the entrance to a room.Now all it says is there has to be a switch to control a lighting outlet unless on a stairway then at each landing or if there is another entrance/exit from that landing there has to be one there

 

[john m. caloggero]

Re: multiple switch control

The Code simply states "At least one wall switch controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in every habitable room and bathroom." This rule was introduce in the 1975 NEC. The only place where switch location is specified is for starways where there are 6 risers or more between floor levels, and storage or equipment spaces. The location of switches in the habitable rooms is design criteria not mandated by the Code.