Hi Everyone, I have a electrical problem in my personal home. First I had a tv and 3 ceiling fans over heat and smell of burning in two bedrooms in my home. I checked all wiring and everything came back good. I did voltage tests under load and current tests and no issues. I also checked all the arc fault breakers and changed phases and put regular breaker on circuits and still no fix to problem. I was taking current readings with my amp probe and I shut my main off one day and checked the neutral and I had about 1 amp of current still with main shut off. So I went over to where the #6 bonds to the water pipe in the floor and still 1 amp of current with main shut off. I have a bonding screw in place in panel and ground rod is also installed. I had the power company out twice to check the under ground wire feed and no issues there. Still have current to ground at water pipe all the time. I went into 5 of my neighbors houses and they all have the current to ground at water main also. Some of them are experiencing power quality issues also. The Electrician that wired my house won't get involved to help so I have been dealing with this for a month and a half so far. The power company put recorders in my meter and transformer and after one week they told me everything looked ok and the current to ground was normal. I am lost at this point. Objectionable current? EMF? Please help with your suggestions Thanks!
My personal home has current on #6 to water pipe.
- Thread starter Eamp
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- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
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- Retired PV System Designer
The resulting EMF is small except for anyone who is, or feels they are, electrosensitive.
And since the POCO service neutral has a finite impedance, current on the water pipe GEC is not at all unusual. One amp is on the low side for this kind of situation.
However, if you still measure 1A with your main breaker off (no loads in the house or outbuildings ernergized) it isl likely a high resistance neutral at one or more of your neighbors on the same POCO secondary. If not that, then a serious voltage gradient in the earth in your neighborhood.
Identifying the source of current will help you determine if it is "normal" and benign or a sign of something that is not yet serious but might become so.
Current in the GES, parallel to the POCO is by definition not objectionable under the NEC because the service neutral is not subject to the NEC and some parallel current is unavoidable.
At, say, a dairy farm, stray current and voltage considerations are much more sensitive, but not the subject of NEC regulation either.
And since the POCO service neutral has a finite impedance, current on the water pipe GEC is not at all unusual. One amp is on the low side for this kind of situation.
However, if you still measure 1A with your main breaker off (no loads in the house or outbuildings ernergized) it isl likely a high resistance neutral at one or more of your neighbors on the same POCO secondary. If not that, then a serious voltage gradient in the earth in your neighborhood.
Identifying the source of current will help you determine if it is "normal" and benign or a sign of something that is not yet serious but might become so.
Current in the GES, parallel to the POCO is by definition not objectionable under the NEC because the service neutral is not subject to the NEC and some parallel current is unavoidable.
At, say, a dairy farm, stray current and voltage considerations are much more sensitive, but not the subject of NEC regulation either.
My neighbors are not all on the same transformer or pedestal as me. How do you suggest i find the source of the current?
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
If you want to make the effort, I would start by turning off the main. If the current is not simply a fraction of your neutral current, then it is either sourced outside your premises (not much you can do) or it is coming in over another if your ground electrodes (either made or accidental like bonded drain pipes.)
Measure what currents you can on other grounds.
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- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
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- Master Electrician
It does not. AC current is 60 hz, cell phone frequencies are mega hz, and low power. Not possible to have cell frequencies current go thru earth and be induced in water lines
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
If you and neighbors have metal water service lines out to main in street, then since your neutral is bonded to the water line, the water line and neutral are in parallel, so some of your neutral current will go back to its source, (utility transformer) via the water line. This is unavoidable.
Did you check for a loose or high resistance on the neutral?
Any neighbors have similar issues with damage to loads, etc?
Issues such as these can be difficult to work on and the utility may not be of much help/
Is the primary overhead or buried? I have heard of odd issues with buried primary where the concentric neutral (on the outside of the primary) failed due to corrosion.
Did you check for a loose or high resistance on the neutral?
Any neighbors have similar issues with damage to loads, etc?
Issues such as these can be difficult to work on and the utility may not be of much help/
Is the primary overhead or buried? I have heard of odd issues with buried primary where the concentric neutral (on the outside of the primary) failed due to corrosion.
We live in a brand new neighborhood about one year old with new houses still going up. I have not checked other houses neutrals yet, I asked the POCO to check all connections in transformers, pedestals, and meter sockets and they have not done so yet. My neighbors have had some quality issues (flickering lights and the electrician who wired all of our homes has come out and switched some of the arc faults for regular breakers to try and address their power quality problems. I have not started going door to door yet to see what is all going on. I have been in 5 other homes who all have current on the GEC and some are out of my pedestal and others are across the street on separate transformers and pedestals. We are buried primaries. I had POCO out and they ran new primarie across lawn and only hooked up neutral and current was present to GEC.
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growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
Are the TV and the three ceiling fans on the same circuit? I assume these are not MWBCs.
I'm thinking that you may need to check the wiring on these circuits again.This probably has nothing to do with the current on the ground wire.
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Not MWBC, It started off about 6 months ago I walked into my sons room and it was so hot in there we were like what is going on. Walked past his wall mounted tv and I could feel the heat coming off of it. The housing on the tv was burning to the touch almost. We replaced tv assuming it was old and did not have problems after with new tv. Then 6 months later I hung a ceiling fan in his room. My sons room started to smell like burning and fan was burning hot also instantly within 2 minutes. I replaced the housing with the other fan I bought for my daughters room and same problem as the first. I chalked it up to cheap ceiling fans and returned them and bought more expensive ones. Installed new one in his room and same burning smell and heat. I installed the one in my daughters room which is on a separate circuit and hers will get burning smell after about 5 minutes but not as strong as my sons room. So far 4 fans all same burning heating issues. I have broke apart every joint, traced every wire up and down on both circuits over a week of free time. This was all before I discovered the current on GEC in basement. I believe I have checked the circuits to perfection at this point. There is no voltage drop at the fans or high current draw either. I am just looking for a new direction or explanation. Completely mind blown. I also fed his room from a separate circuit and phase with a piece of romex across the floor, same problem in both rooms. Only combining factor of the 2 rooms is they are the farthest circuits from my panel.
Russs57
Senior Member
- Location
- Miami, Florida, USA
- Occupation
- Maintenance Engineer
I do suspect something is up with the neutral. However, using a meter that can measure both at same time, look to see if you have any DC voltage on your AC power lines. Call it a wild guess.
What kind of tester can do this. I have not ever seen one.
I have checked main service when ac kicks on and no voltage drop at all. I have not checked a single phase load with a hair dryer but I will check.
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Yeah, checking a 240V load is useless...
let us know the results of your single phase checks.
I just checked a single phase circuit with hair dryer and went from 120v to 102v with hair dryer on.
Eddie702
Licensed Electrician
- Location
- Western Massachusetts
- Occupation
- Electrician
I have run into this same situation before. Usually it is a loose neutral. If the neutral becomes disconnected 120 volt circuits will be put in series with each other and will have 240 volts across them. This could cause the problem with the TV and fans you mentioned.
I would make sure the wiring in your home is correct at the service panel as far as tight connections and proper grounding and bonding. I would think this is a POCO problem, but if your neighbors allow I would shut down all the neighbors panels and then look for the house with the highest current on the GEC as a place to start Even if everything in the house is ok it could be a loose neutral in someone's meter socket, or any where else in the incoming power
Your situation being a new development will probably make the problem more difficult t find
Please elaborate on this testing process.
Turn your dryer on, check the voltage. You said it went to 102 volts. If you have a lost neutral the voltage will lower on the phase the dryer is on, and rise on the other phase. Leave the dryer on, check BOTH phases to ground.
hair dryer, 120 volts. Not clothes dryer
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