Mysterious Power Loss

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wmgeorge

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Location
Iowa
Occupation
Retired
Sounds like a title for a UFO movie? My brother called me last night and apparently this has been going since February of this year (2006). Since I was an electrician and now HVAC person I seem to get these calls from friends and relatives alike.

From January to February his Kw/H?s usage doubled. He lives in a old house he has remodeled and is now semi-retired. Just he and his wife and one son live at home. They have a electric dryer, stove and water heater, all appliances are newer. He also has an underground feeder (3 years old) taking 230 volts out to his detached garage.

He has had two electricians check things out, and one replaced the service mast conduit and wires to his newer service panel. The power company also replaced his meter. Since I only live about 2 hours from his place, I?m sure I will be up to check things for him.

The extra 1000 Kw/H?s a month or so works out to about 5 or 6 amps on 230 volts or 11 ? 12 amps on 120 volts 24/7. My suggestion on the phone last night was three things; he start checking circuits with a clamp on ampmeter at random times, his electric water heater might have an element that has shorted out and taking current to ground inside the tank, or more than likely the underground to his garage has insulation breakdown and he is losing current to earth ground. I?m open to any other ideas?
 
One of the more difficult aspects of a good troubleshooting process, when it is used to help family and friends, is that you should start by considering everything they tell you as being a lie.

OK. That was a bit harsh, but I wanted your attention. I really mean that you should question everything they say, when they describe the symptoms. This is not by way of saying they are liars. Rather, it is in recognition of the fact that they probably don't understand the symptoms clearly enough to give you a complete and accurate description.

So start with the description. Power usage doubled from January to February. OK. What about December? November? March? April? Is there a trend here, or is it just a one-time anomaly? Do they have electric heat, and is this an area of the country that does not often require heating, and was it colder than usual in February?

Next. You say it "doubled," then you say "the extra 1000 KWH." Does that mean that their "normal" usage is just about 11 or 12 amps at 120 volts, as you calculated, and that for this month it was closer to 24 amps? How does he know that it "doubled"? Did the electric bill double? Did the rates change? Was the January bill based on an "estimate" and the February bill based on an actual meter reading? Did you see the electric bills for any of these months?

My primary message is that before you can effectively start out to solve a problem, you must first verify that a problem does exist, and then pin down the exact nature of the problem. It's a sad feeling when you discover you have been on a "wild goose chase," but it is sadder still when you discover that your real target had been a "sitting duck" all along.
 
Mysterious Power Loss

charlie b said:
So start with the description. Power usage doubled from January to February. OK. What about December? November? March? April? Is there a trend here, or is it just a one-time anomaly? Do they have electric heat, and is this an area of the country that does not often require heating, and was it colder than usual in February?

Next. You say it "doubled," then you say "the extra 1000 KWH." Does that mean that their "normal" usage is just about 11 or 12 amps at 120 volts, as you calculated, and that for this month it was closer to 24 amps? How does he know that it "doubled"? Did the electric bill double? Did the rates change? Was the January bill based on an "estimate" and the February bill based on an actual meter reading? Did you see the electric bills for any of these months?

My primary message is that before you can effectively start out to solve a problem, you must first verify that a problem does exist, and then pin down the exact nature of the problem. It's a sad feeling when you discover you have been on a "wild goose chase," but it is sadder still when you discover that your real target had been a "sitting duck" all along.
Click to expand...

Thanks Charlie.... His Kw/H which has ran for years at 600 to 900 max. per month, went to nearly 2000. No electric heat, just what I listed. It has stayed at that apox. reading since Feb 06, no estimated billing. My calculation was based on a ball park figure of 1,000 Kw/H additional usage over his average Kw use for years. Having ran electricial and HVAC (commercial) service for years, and dealing with customers... I am a doubter, but also believe that if two electricians have checked this out... somebody is missing something.
 
Does his son have a new stereo? Just kidding. What part of the country is this? Ok, checked your profile so it's up north. They didn't happen to use some extra space heaters?
 
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OK. So let's presume there is a problem. It might be a leakage to ground. It might be a load that is running, and that he does not know is running. It might be a load that is intentionally running but that he forgot is running.

First step: Ask what changed in February. Is that the month that the garage feeder was installed? Was the water heater replaced or repaired in February? Was any other thing purchased and installed (or repaired) in February, such as an overhead light fixture or an oven heating element?

Next step (if Step 1 did not isolate the problem): Since he is retired and since he has very few electrical loads, I'd suggest you have him perform a simple test. You are looking for a 12 amp, 120 volt load, or its equivalent. Have him turn off all the lights, the water heater, the stove, the TV, everything. But turn it off at the local switch, not at the breaker panel, if that is possible for all loads. Then look to see if the main meter is still spinning. If it is, turn off each breaker one by one, each time looking to see if the main meter is still spinning. That might be the quickest way to narrow down the search. The very first breaker I would suggest turning off at the main panel is the breaker that supplies the garage.

Next step: If turning off all loads at their on/off switches does, in fact, cause the service meter to stop spinning, then it's probably not a leak in the branch circuit wiring. But at this point an ammeter will be needed, so you'll have to continue the troubleshooting yourself. Turn on each load one by one. I would start with the water heater. Look for the amount of current drawn (i.e., is it more current than that load should draw?).

Finally, if he turns off all breakers, and if the meter is still spinning, then it is definitely time for you to pay a visit, and perhaps to invite the utility to join you there.
 
Mysterious Power Loss

I see a road trip in the future to solve this mystery....(twilight zone music) But even as we speak (type) I think he is replacing / inspecting the water heater elements.
He put or had put in the underground feeder to the garage 3 years ago. I'm not sure if a insulation break underground would allow that much current to flow?? Can anyone shed some light on this possiblity?

From the amount of current being used, I'd think it would be easy to find. He has tried the turning off CB's and the even the garage circuit for a day, but I need to be there with my good Fluke clamp on to narrow it down.
 
I would start by looking at my large loads. Hot water leak?? I have seen heat strips staying on and causing a bill to do exactly that, but I have seen just about anything cause this, I work for the POCO and do this alot in my job. Don't think it is the garage wire leaking, more than likely it would have tripped out if it was leaking that kinda current. Don't know if you have auxilliary heat strips in you central unit or not but that is a good place to look.
 
This may sound strange, but here we go............
You stated in your post,
"for years and years his usage averaged 600 to 900 Kwhr per month"
and in a another place you said
"the PoCo changed out his meter"
The meter thing is probably where the power mystery comes from.
Meters are notorious for slowing down over a period of years. In fact, at the Utility where I work, the metermen try very hard to test/replace meters every so often just because they slow down and can become very inaccurate.
Now, depending on the part of the country you live in and your PoCo's metering policy, that old meter may have in fact been spinning for 20 years or more and may have never been tested or calibrated. Your friend/relative in fact may have been getting a super bargain on his power for a long time previous to the change of the meter.
Usage for a home with three people and the usual appliances and a garage/ workshop could easily totol 1500+ Kwhr.
If you could come up with a recording meter and take a two or three day test, you may find that the old meter was a better "friend" than you realised
 
Mysterious Power Loss

subtech said:
This may sound strange, but here we go............
You stated in your post,
"for years and years his usage averaged 600 to 900 Kwhr per month"
and in a another place you said
"the PoCo changed out his meter"
The meter thing is probably where the power mystery comes from.
Meters are notorious for slowing down over a period of years. In fact, at the Utility where I work, the metermen try very hard to test/replace meters every so often just because they slow down and can become very inaccurate.
Now, depending on the part of the country you live in and your PoCo's metering policy, that old meter may have in fact been spinning for 20 years or more and may have never been tested or calibrated. Your friend/relative in fact may have been getting a super bargain on his power for a long time previous to the change of the meter.
Usage for a home with three people and the usual appliances and a garage/ workshop could easily totol 1500+ Kwhr.
If you could come up with a recording meter and take a two or three day test, you may find that the old meter was a better "friend" than you realised
Click to expand...

Yes, I would agree... but the meter was replaced AFTER the first high bill, 800 vs 1800 the next month. (BTW my power KWH run from 650 (April to June) to 900 with 2 people and gas dryer and water heater. ) He is going to do the power off circuits and watch the digital meter tomorrow, and will pay special attention to the electric water heater. He was going to either inspect or R&R the elements today but forgot to pick up new ones in case they were really bad.
My other thoughts were that his old meter was slow, (as you say) they had a power surge so someone has told him... and the old meter started clocking the right KWH's. Then it was replaced with a new one and it is reading correctly!!
I've done some research on the open PoCo neutral causing high power billing, but that would lead to brighter standard light bulbs or burning out of bulbs and other equipment. He does not have this, and has checked the line voltage at 118 and 119 VAC. Once again THANK YOU for all those taking the time to read and respond. BG
 
Always a skeptic.... :rolleyes: Did the rates change when the meter did? Anything specifically particular to the month that it changed?

Either way, it all means nothing until you have a meter in hand on site. As it could be anything...
 
I traced down the complaints about a high electric bill one time. We had wired a large condominium development. One owner kept complaining that her bill was higher than all of her neighbors. We investigated, turned off all of the electrical and still had (I believe) a 6-amp, 120 volt load. We finally found that it was the heater in her water-bed! Ran almost constantly to keep the water warm in the bed.
Remember to check the simple things.
 
This may sound a little odd, but there isn't an extension cord going over to the neighbors house somewhere is there? I'm sure I'm not the only one that has discovered this before. I've seen where people have even tapped into neighbors wiring, especially when out lying buildings are invovled.

"If you can imagine it, it can happen"
 
I have to wait until my neighbors go on vacation to fill up my swimming pool:)

Just kidding. I would never do anything like that. At least not while I have neighbors I like:)
 
Just to add some more skepticism, how old is the son? If he is teenage or older, any chance he has a hydroponic pot garden hidden somewhere? I know it sounds paranoid, but I worked for a summer for the local Sheriff's office doing power use surveys as a method of finding pot growers. Many of the people who we caught had no idea their kids were doing this, the plants were in separate out buildings with long extension cords run in secret, often tapped off behind a wall so nobody would see the plug. They would run 2 or 3 400W Metal Halide fixtures in the basement or or a string of fluorescent grow lights in a crawl space with a hydroponic watering system. We would specifically look for 800-1500kWh usage jumps because that was what they could get out of a hardware store extension cord! It was almost always a big shock (no pun intended) when the parents found out why their power bills had been going up.
 
Jraef,

That is exactly what I was wondering!!!

I dont think there is a red-eyed smiley face for us to use on this forum, but it would sure be nice to describe some people that I have seen on the job!

Matt
 
mpross said:
I dont think there is a red-eyed smiley face for us to use on this forum...
Click to expand...
Close as I could find:
mood_stoned_big.gif
stoner.gif
 
I found an 1 1/4 EMT service entrance conduit that had been cut open (?)(POCO side of meter) and the #2 wires tapped. The tapped wires went into the ground and disappeared. Never could find where they went. I cut off the taps and taped them up.

The HO had lived there for 20 years, and never noticed (it was in a detached garage. I gave them a price to replace the service. They were low on funds, so they had a cousin from out of town come up and replace the service.

Truth is stranger then fiction!
 
Well, my money was on the bad water heater theory until I read the last few posts. I know that in my area they are tracking down meth-labs using the utility bills.

At any rate I have one more "guess" for ya: My parents live in a rural subdivision in Missouri. If the sewer system were left to "gravity drain" it would all end up in the lake. (Oooow!) They have a septic tank and pump that . . . well . . . let's just say that it may be stuck on and not explain WHY! :eek:

Best of luck.
 
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