NEC 2017 requirment for the dishwasher

Status
Not open for further replies.
charlie b said:
I just discovered the unwelcome news that this requirement came into being in the 2014 NEC, is still in place for the 2017 NEC, and the Seattle amendments did not remove it. Why "unwelcome," you ask? Because I just bought a new dishwasher to replace a recently deceased 10+ year old model, and the circuit is not GFCI protected. I am told that the installer has the necessary skills and permissions to do any electrical connections. I don't know whether that person will also have a license that will allow replacement of an existing receptacle (or installation of a new one, if the unit is hard wired) with a GFCI model. I don't believe my circuit breaker box is a model that can accept GFCI breakers. I have no interest in performing any DIY work here. But I am concerned over how this will shake out.
Click to expand...


Does the current code apply to your existing dishwasher outlet?
I don't see a code requirement for adding GFCI protection for a replacement dishwasher outlet. Just like I don't see a code requirement for adding AFCI protection when replacing a light fixture in a location that now requires AFCI protection. (I don't think of this as modifying branch circuit wiring)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I seem to have hijacked this thread. My apologies to the OP, though I believe the original question has been fully answered.

My new DW was installed yesterday, and it is running now. I cleared out and cleaned the adjacent space (i.e., under the sink) before the installer arrived. What I discovered is an outlet box that included a duplex receptacle into which the disposal's cord was plugged. Coming out of the same box was a run of greenfield that went through a small hole in the dividing wall and had a connector that fastened to a box at the bottom front of the DW. I had opened the breaker that served the old DW when the DW died. But the disposal still functioned, so the two are clearly on different circuits.

All the installed did was to verify the circuit was de-energized, disconnect the wires, and reconnect them to the new DW. There was no change to the premises wiring system. Therefore, I infer that there was no need to provide GFCI or AFCI protection to the circuit. I made a point of not mentioning the question to the installer, and he didn't bring it up either.
 
packersparky said:
Does the current code apply to your existing dishwasher outlet?
Click to expand...
No. Washington State has adopted the 2017 NEC, but Seattle has not (Seattle is expected to adopt it in November 2017). We are on the 2014 NEC with Seattle amendments, and there are no amendments to 422.16. Keep in mind that that article speaks of flexible cords, not hard-wired connections.

 
charlie b said:




All the installed did was to verify the circuit was de-energized, disconnect the wires, and reconnect them to the new DW. There was no change to the premises wiring system. Therefore, I infer that there was no need to provide GFCI or AFCI protection to the circuit. I made a point of not mentioning the question to the installer, and he didn't bring it up either.
Click to expand...

I would say that you had a DW installed and that GFCI was required for that DW.

210.8(D) says nothing about modififying premise wiring as opposed to 406.4(D)(3).

Of course I would have did exactly what you did.:D
 
Looking at the 2014 article 210.8(D), I find it interesting that the title of that article speaks of the branch circuit, but the text says it is the outlet that requires GFCI. For all I know (and I have no interest in learning more :happyno: ), there are three continuous wires that start in the panel (located 3 feet from the DW, on the dining room side of the wall) and pass through an outlet box without terminating there (i.e., no wire nuts) and continue on to the point of connection at the bottom of the DW. One could ask where the outlet is in this installation. Current is not taken from the premises wiring system inside the outlet box; it just passes through that box. Where does the premises wiring system end? If it ends where the wires terminate under the DW, then clearly I can't install a GFCI device there. I don't think my breaker panel is a type that can accept GFCI breakers.

If I had to sell this argument to the AHJ, do you think it would work? :happyyes:
 
charlie b said:
Looking at the 2014 article 210.8(D), I find it interesting that the title of that article speaks of the branch circuit, but the text says it is the outlet that requires GFCI. For all I know (and I have no interest in learning more :happyno: ), there are three continuous wires that start in the panel (located 3 feet from the DW, on the dining room side of the wall) and pass through an outlet box without terminating there (i.e., no wire nuts) and continue on to the point of connection at the bottom of the DW. One could ask where the outlet is in this installation. Current is not taken from the premises wiring system inside the outlet box; it just passes through that box. Where does the premises wiring system end? If it ends where the wires terminate under the DW, then clearly I can't install a GFCI device there. I don't think my breaker panel is a type that can accept GFCI breakers.

If I had to sell this argument to the AHJ, do you think it would work? :happyyes:
Click to expand...

The outlet is the cheesy little "box" under/in the DW where the connection is made.

GFCI protection could easily be provided by installing an upstream dead front GFCI device.

I would not change a thing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top