NEC 2023 10A Branch Circuits??

[Patpowers]

310.3 Conductors.
(A) Minimum Size of Conductors.
The minimum size of conductors for voltage ratings up to and including 2000 volts shall be 14 AWG copper or 12 AWG aluminum or copper-clad aluminum, except as permitted elsewhere in this Code.


I have my 2023 NFPA70 ,

310.3(A) was not modified. However; 210.18 Rating has added 10ampere branch circuits.

210.18 Rating.
Branch circuits recognized by this article shall be rated in accordance with the maximum permitted ampere rating or setting of the overcurrent device. The rating for other than individual branch circuits shall be 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, and 50 amperes. Where conductors of higher ampacity are used for any reason, the ampere rating or setting of the specified overcurrent device shall determine the circuit rating.


According to Table 210.24(1), we must use 14AWG copper or 12AWG aluminum/ copper-clad.

This is the same conductor size requirement for 15 ampere circuits.

SO WHAT IS THE POINT OF USING A 10 AMPERE RATED BRANCH CIRCUIT IF WE HAVE TO USE THE SAME SIZE CONDUCTORS FOR 15 AMPERE BRANCH CIRCUITS. AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE? WAS THERE A MISTAKE IN THE 2023 NFPA70? WHAT DOES IT PROFIT A MAN TO GAIN THE ABILITY TO USE A 10A OCPD, JUST TO LOSE HIS CONDUCTORS??

Circuit Rating	10 A	15 A	20 A	30 A	40 A	50 A
Conductors (min. size):
Circuit wires	14	14	12	10	8	6
Taps	14	14	14	14	12	12
Fixture wires and cords	See 240.5.
Overcurrent Protection	10 A	15 A	20 A	30 A

 

[petersonra]

I don't think anybody makes a chapter 3 wire that sized smaller than number 14 anyway.

Presumably eventually they will come up with some way to let you use number 16 for 10 amp circuits but I'm not sure what the point is. Is there enough difference in cost between number 16 and number 14 wire to make it worth while? I'm not sure what the point would be of running a 10 amp circuit anyway. What would you use a 10 amp circuit for?

 

[Patpowers]

I’ve used a POE lighting method on a 3200 sq ft house. That entire branch circuit would never see 7 Amperes. The POE hub is less than 30ft from the panel. 30 ft of 14AWG over 30 ft 16AWG?

Nope, don’t see too much of a practical use for this. Doubt a 10A AFCI OCPD will be any cheaper than a 15.

I thought that AFCI would see additions in the 2023, but it was GFCI that seen it’s revamping.

It states that every thing in kitchen must be GFCI, and specifically notes cooking appliances. No longer just countertop and 6ft from outer edge of sink. Residential condenser units under 50A. Residential dryers.

There’s no escaping the cost. Building a house will not be for the frugal walleted penny pincher. No 10A circuit or 16AWG conductors will offset the pricing for those 2-pole GFCI OCPD’s. Let’s add a pool pump and we’ll pump and you’re pressing near a grand for the 2-pole GFCI OCPD alone!

 

[Patpowers]

But, if I ran a 14AWG through an attic with an ambient temperature above 167 degrees F, with a 41 percent correction factor, my circuit would be good for 10.25A. Slap a 10A OCPD on that puppy and I won’t have to prove to the AHJ that the attic isn’t from hell with temps exceeding 167 degrees F.

 

[Patpowers]

This shouldn’t even be a factor, new houses are not supposed to have an attic temperature 20 degrees F above the outside temperature. When’s the last time we had a day hotter than 147 degrees F in the United States. Some AHJ’s, SMH.

Still have no reason for the 10A circuit.

 

[readydave8]

Will need 10a if & when #14 copper clad AL becomes available

Well I probably won't, but someone might

 

[Electromatic]

Does it maybe have something to do with this new Class 4 wiring method? Simply a wild guess. We just fully went to the 2017 this year, so I don't dwell too much on 2023 shenanigans.

 

[garbo]

310.3 Conductors.
(A) Minimum Size of Conductors.
The minimum size of conductors for voltage ratings up to and including 2000 volts shall be 14 AWG copper or 12 AWG aluminum or copper-clad aluminum, except as permitted elsewhere in this Code.


I have my 2023 NFPA70 ,

310.3(A) was not modified. However; 210.18 Rating has added 10ampere branch circuits.

210.18 Rating.
Branch circuits recognized by this article shall be rated in accordance with the maximum permitted ampere rating or setting of the overcurrent device. The rating for other than individual branch circuits shall be 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, and 50 amperes. Where conductors of higher ampacity are used for any reason, the ampere rating or setting of the specified overcurrent device shall determine the circuit rating.


According to Table 210.24(1), we must use 14AWG copper or 12AWG aluminum/ copper-clad.

This is the same conductor size requirement for 15 ampere circuits.

SO WHAT IS THE POINT OF USING A 10 AMPERE RATED BRANCH CIRCUIT IF WE HAVE TO USE THE SAME SIZE CONDUCTORS FOR 15 AMPERE BRANCH CIRCUITS. AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE? WAS THERE A MISTAKE IN THE 2023 NFPA70? WHAT DOES IT PROFIT A MAN TO GAIN THE ABILITY TO USE A 10A OCPD, JUST TO LOSE HIS CONDUCTORS??

Circuit Rating	10 A	15 A	20 A	30 A	40 A	50 A
Conductors (min. size):
Circuit wires	14	14	12	10	8	6
Taps	14	14	14	14	12	12
Fixture wires and cords	See 240.5.
Overcurrent Protection	10 A	15 A	20 A	30 A

Side note. I'm retired and out of the loop but still trying to keep up with the latest NEC. Had anybody been able to locate 10 amp single pole plug in circuit breakers at supply houses. Years ago had an air conditioning unit stating to use a 25 amp circuit breaker. Of course none of the supply houses stocked them.

 

[retirede]

Side note. I'm retired and out of the loop but still trying to keep up with the latest NEC. Had anybody been able to locate 10 amp single pole plug in circuit breakers at supply houses. Years ago had an air conditioning unit stating to use a 25 amp circuit breaker. Of course none of the supply houses stocked them.

QO breakers go down to 10A. Whether or not anybody stocks them, I can’t say. I’m sure 25s are available around here.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

This was part of a number of public inputs to permit the use of 14 AWG copper clad aluminum for 10 amp circuits. The10 amp part made it through the process, but the use of 14 AWG copper clad aluminum for those 10 amp circuits did not.

 

[tortuga]

Side note. I'm retired and out of the loop but still trying to keep up with the latest NEC. Had anybody been able to locate 10 amp single pole plug in circuit breakers at supply houses. Years ago had an air conditioning unit stating to use a 25 amp circuit breaker. Of course none of the supply houses stocked them.

We stock a ton of 35 and 25 Amp breakers for HVAC units, we also use 25A breakers on a brand of electric 50 gallon 4500W water heaters that we often wire up for a contractor, and per the manufacturers instructions 110.3(B) they need a 25.
Siemens and Eaton both make a 10A breaker, I have only seen them in RV's and special equipment. But they are in the catalogues. Interestingly 6A and 10A branch circuits were in the code 100 years ago in the 1920's back when they used plug fuses.

 

[jaggedben]

What would you use a 10 amp circuit for?

Residential lighting with LED lamps, or even not LEDs, and no receptacles.

I've got a lighting circuit for three rooms that only consumes about 1A with everything turned on. If I switched the six LED bulbs to incandescents, which I would never want to do anyway, it would still only consume about 3A. One fixture is an integrated LED that I can't switch. Got another lighting circuit that I do have some incandescents on, as well as half a dozen integrated LEDs and bulb LEDs each, it consumes about 3A with everything on. There were practical reasons that these are separate circuits, but as you can see, they could both be combined to one 10A circuit.

 

[petersonra]

Residential lighting with LED lamps, or even not LEDs, and no receptacles.

I've got a lighting circuit for three rooms that only consumes about 1A with everything turned on. If I switched the six LED bulbs to incandescents, which I would never want to do anyway, it would still only consume about 3A. One fixture is an integrated LED that I can't switch. Got another lighting circuit that I do have some incandescents on, as well as half a dozen integrated LEDs and bulb LEDs each, it consumes about 3A with everything on. There were practical reasons that these are separate circuits, but as you can see, they could both be combined to one 10A circuit.

That's pretty atypical though. Most of the time circuits are a mix of lighting and receptacles.

 

[Patpowers]

When I do house rewires without access behind walls, I would run receptacle circuits from basement and light circuits through attic. Even with a dedicated light circuit I wouldn’t want to waste my time looking for a 10A OCPD, likely an AFCI at that, when my wiring method allows a 15A OCPD. Even if it the circuit uses 1A, customers are unpredictable and love to change light fixtures or even add fixtures on a regular basis. In most cases they would do it their self or hire a handyman. As of July 1st all electricians, including service technician electricians must carry a state contractors license in Mississippi. Even this law isn’t going to prevent home owners from changing their own fixtures. This new law, along with inflation, and the lack of reliable suppliers in our county, has drove up the prices. Most of us charge 150 an hour for standard residential services, compared to 60 an hour two years ago.

 

[jaggedben]

That's pretty atypical though. Most of the time circuits are a mix of lighting and receptacles.

Not in my experience, seen them separated plenty of times. It makes sense especially in the kitchen area where the small appliance branch circuits are required to be on a 20, so putting the lights on a separate circuit means you can run 14 to them. But I've seen it in bedrooms too. Seems like a matter of preference on the part of the electrician, depending on the jobsite details.

 

[wwhitney]

in the kitchen area where the small appliance branch circuits are required to be on a 20, so putting the lights on a separate circuit means you can run 14 to them.

Putting the lights on a separate circuit is mandatory anyway.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[kwired]

QO breakers go down to 10A. Whether or not anybody stocks them, I can’t say. I’m sure 25s are available around here.

I haven't purchased them but have run into 10 amp QO breakers before. Usually for a control power circuit.

My Square D distributor usually stocks 25, 35 and 45 amp 2 and 3 pole breakers, as well as 70, 80 90 and 110 amp. Big box stores, those I just mentioned kind of sort of don't exist. I think HD has them available on line but not typical for them to be in most the stores

 

[jaggedben]

10A standard breakers are a thing. For example, Siemens single pole 10A available for delivery if you order online at Amazon or Home Depot, $5, didn't research shipping. 2-pole also exist. We used to have to use them sometimes in solar for micro-inverters. I haven't seen AFCI versions though.

That's not the point, though. The manufacturers would make 10A AFCIs if there were demand. The question is as petersonra asked in post #2 is "Is there enough difference in cost between number 16 and number 14 wire to make it worth while?" And it's hard to answer that question when they don't make 16/2 NM-B. I tend to think that there probably isn't enough of a difference, especially not to overcome the inertia of using 15A or the inconvenience of keeping another item on the truck.

 

[jaggedben]

Putting the lights on a separate circuit is mandatory anyway.

Cheers, Wayne

I don't see where it's mandatory to separate the kitchen lights from receptacles not covered in 210.11(C). But yeah, practically speaking...

 

[wwhitney]

I don't see where it's mandatory to separate the kitchen lights from receptacles not covered in 210.11(C). But yeah, practically speaking...

Well the SABC covers both kitchen counter receptacles and kitchen wall receptacles (210.52(B)), so often that would be all kitchen receptacles that aren't on individual branch circuits (dishwasher, built-in microwave, etc). But I guess you're right, you could, for example, sprinkle receptacles inside cabinets (so not subject to 210.52(A)) that aren't on an SABC and can be mixed with lighting loads.

Cheers, Wayne