NEC 2023 10A Branch Circuits??

[jaggedben]

Well the SABC covers both kitchen counter receptacles and kitchen wall receptacles (210.52(B)), so often that would be all kitchen receptacles that aren't on individual branch circuits (dishwasher, built-in microwave, etc). But I guess you're right, you could, for example, sprinkle receptacles inside cabinets (so not subject to 210.52(A)) that aren't on an SABC and can be mixed with lighting loads.

Cheers, Wayne

You could put the kitchen lights on the same circuit as receptacles in another room. Say, a bedroom that shares a wall with the kitchen.

 

[garbo]

We stock a ton of 35 and 25 Amp breakers for HVAC units, we also use 25A breakers on a brand of electric 50 gallon 4500W water heaters that we often wire up for a contractor, and per the manufacturers instructions 110.3(B) they need a 25.
Siemens and Eaton both make a 10A breaker, I have only seen them in RV's and special equipment. But they are in the catalogues. Interestingly 6A and 10A branch circuits were in the code 100 years ago in the 1920's back when they used plug fuses.

Thank you do much. Years ago I asked two supply houses if they stocked 35 amp circuit breakers. One of them told me that nobody makes a 35 amp breaker. I from the old school and always tried to use the lowest ampere fuse or breaker. On good quality time delay 200 KIC fuses most motors would run with only bc a fusec125% higher v then motor nameplate amps. Going back to fuses on old fire alarms they would use a 3 amp fuse to supply power to a less then 100 VA 24 volt output transformer to power up a couple of glorified door bells in triplex apartments.

 

[petersonra]

Thank you do much. Years ago I asked two supply houses if they stocked 35 amp circuit breakers. One of them told me that nobody makes a 35 amp breaker. I from the old school and always tried to use the lowest ampere fuse or breaker. On good quality time delay 200 KIC fuses most motors would run with only bc a fusec125% higher v then motor nameplate amps. Going back to fuses on old fire alarms they would use a 3 amp fuse to supply power to a less then 100 VA 24 volt output transformer to power up a couple of glorified door bells in triplex apartments.

I am from the school of eliminating nuisance trips so I'm generally in favor of using the highest rated over current protection device on motors.

 

[tortuga]

I am from the school of eliminating nuisance trips so I'm generally in favor of using the highest rated over current protection device on motors.

Yeah and in that case the 25, 35 and 45's can also be handy

 

[garbo]

I am from the school of eliminating nuisance trips so I'm generally in favor of using the highest rated over current protection device on motors.

For over 20 years worked at a slaughterhouse & large candy plant with nightly high pressure wash downs where water intrusion was a major problem. Always felt that with the smallest fuse that could be used might clear the numerous ground faults a little quicker. Our motor repair shop thought we held his record for most 100 HP Motors burnt out in a single day. Me & another young electrician replaced three 100 HP Motors in one day. We used nothing but TEFC motors and most of the time thick home made gaskets on motor pecker heads.

 

[tortuga]

Our motor repair shop thought we held his record for most 100 HP Motors burnt out in a single day.

Wow

So thinking about motor circuits now that we will have a 10 amp circuit in 2023
If say I have a small 240V fractional HP motor 1/3 HP or less will I be required to use a 2 pole 10Amp breaker?
1/3 HP @ 230V T430.248 = 3.6 amps X 250% for inverse time breaker = 9 amps.

Also i was getting some dejavu and remembered i posted about these 10A circuits before

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Wow

So thinking about motor circuits now that we will have a 10 amp circuit in 2023
If say I have a small 240V fractional HP motor 1/3 HP or less will I be required to use a 2 pole 10Amp breaker?
1/3 HP @ 230V T430.248 = 3.6 amps X 250% for inverse time breaker = 9 amps.

Also i was getting some dejavu and remembered i posted about these 10A circuits before

Yes, with 10 amp breakers in the list of standard sizes in 240.6, there will be a lot of applications where 10 amp breakers will required as they become the next larger standard size.

 

[petersonra]

Yes, with 10 amp breakers in the list of standard sizes in 240.6, there will be a lot of applications where 10 amp breakers will required as they become the next larger standard size.

Siemens and Square D have had them for a lot of years. I don't know if they have them for all the different styles though.

 

[VirutalElectrician]

I thought that AFCI would see additions in the 2023, but it was GFCI that seen it’s revamping.

It states that every thing in kitchen must be GFCI, and specifically notes cooking appliances. No longer just countertop and 6ft from outer edge of sink. Residential condenser units under 50A. Residential dryers.

There’s no escaping the cost. Building a house will not be for the frugal walleted penny pincher. No 10A circuit or 16AWG conductors will offset the pricing for those 2-pole GFCI OCPD’s. Let’s add a pool pump and we’ll pump and you’re pressing near a grand for the 2-pole GFCI OCPD alone!

Building houses hasn't been for the frugal in decades. Price of building a house has gone up much faster than people's incomes for a generation or more.

The extra costs of GFCIs is pennies compared to the other increases we've been subjected to.

I would imagine having a 240v dryer floating around in a flooded basement that hasn't tripped it's breaker yet is probably not a good thing. Really no different than requiring it for all basement recepticles.

Not sure where you're getting a grand for a 2 pole GFCI. Readily available for $100-$150.

 

[mtnelect]

Exception No. 2: GFCI protection shall not be required for listed HVAC equipment. This exception shall expire September 1, 2026.

 

[jaggedben]

It wouldn't be the homeowner who'd pocket any difference, it'd be us.

 

[curt swartz]

Exception No. 2: GFCI protection shall not be required for listed HVAC equipment. This exception shall expire September 1, 2026.

Why do you attach .pdf files to every post? Type, copy and paste text or upload an image. No-one here wants to download a pdf file to read your posts.

 

[mtnelect]

Why do you attach .pdf files to every post? Type, copy and paste text or upload an image. No-one here wants to download a pdf file to read your posts.

Thanks for your suggestion ... I will take your advice, since there have been others that are annoyed with this extra step needed to read my posts.

 

[mtnelect]

Exception No. 2: GFCI protection shall not be required for listed HVAC equipment. This exception shall expire September 1, 2026.

Is this better way to post ?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Siemens and Square D have had them for a lot of years. I don't know if they have them for all the different styles though.

Having them is not the same as the 10 amp being a standard size in 240.6. Just having them, means you can use them if you want to, but having them in 240.6, means you will be required to use the 10 amp breaker where the calculated size is less than 10 amps and you are "rounding up". Before the change in 240.6, the round up was to 15 amp breakers.

 

[Amps]

Does it maybe have something to do with this new Class 4 wiring method? Simply a wild guess. We just fully went to the 2017 this year, so I don't dwell too much on 2023 shenanigans.

Lucky you !

 

[Patpowers]

Building houses hasn't been for the frugal in decades. Price of building a house has gone up much faster than people's incomes for a generation or more.

The extra costs of GFCIs is pennies compared to the other increases we've been subjected to.

I would imagine having a 240v dryer floating around in a flooded basement that hasn't tripped it's breaker yet is probably not a good thing. Really no different than requiring it for all basement recepticles.

Not sure where you're getting a grand for a 2 pole GFCI. Readily available for $100-$150.

One of my jurisdictions is enforcing 2020 Code, the state has taken over all electricians in Mississippi. Under HB1163 all electricians must carry a state contractors license; however different jurisdictions are enforcing different code cycles. I have one street that is under the 2020 code and two streets over we are under 2014 code.

We have to use 2 pole GFCI breakers for oven, dryer, condenser unit, water heaters in basement, pool pumps, and well pumps. That’s 6 GFCI OCPD devices at 100-200. It is a total of nearly a thousand dollars extra in breakers if you live in the 2020 Code jurisdiction.

A dryer doesn’t have to be in the basement, it is required to be GFCI protected if it’s in a laundry room.